Imperium vs PanFam: A Week of War – Part 4

Moomin Amatin 2019-06-21

Welcome to the fourth installment of a week of war between the Imperium and PanFam. This is where I will summarise the events of the week in generally broad strokes. This piece will cover the events of June 8-14. If you want to see details of the other pieces covering this war, check out parts 1, 2, and 3.

Tenal has been subdued

This past week has seen PanFam completely removed from the region of Tenal by the forces of Dead Coalition. The defence offered by PanFam forces for the region was sparse at best. PanFam members tried, late last year, to take Branch from DeadCo in order to install Co2. This of course failed and led to the demise of Co2, which was rolled into Pandemic Horde. So it would not be too much of a stretch of the imagination to think that Dead Coalition members are both amused and delighted at their most recent acquisition.

However one of the leaders of PanFam, Hedliner, was making noises about how quickly they would be able to take the region back once “those goons” are gone. Hedliner also made remarks about how the alliance Skill Urself may be inclined to step into the region to cause trouble. Weird that Hedliner should make such a statement, given that it seems to fly in the face of others stating that Skill Urself have nothing to do with PanFam. But more news on Skill Urself a bit later on.

Assault on Vale of the Silent

With the current defence of PanFam territory being more than a little lackluster, the Imperium have decided to press on. The insatiable appetite members of the Imperium have for grinding structures seems to know no bounds.

However on Sunday, June 9, PanFam decided that the iHub timer for the Keepstar system on P3EN was worth defending. A battle for entosis control lasted a good few hours. Ultimately PanFam lost control of the P3EN iHub and a brand new shiny one was installed by the forces of the Imperium.

Additionally the PanFam-owned Keepstar within P3EN was set into its armour timer. Generally speaking, the armour timer is the important one, and will be defended the most. That is if there is any desire to defend it at all. This is because it allows defenders to de-agress and tether without having to risk the structure suddenly not being there anymore while the attackers still have superior supercapital numbers on the field. The armour timer came out at a little after 07:15 on Saturday, June 15, and though there was some subcapital defence, Imperium forces prevailed nonetheless.

But curiously, earlier on 13 and into 14 June, there was a flurry of activity from PanFam forces. PanFam forces were observed yet again moving capitals further to the east. This was via P3EN and Q-EH, which are both currently systems that hold Keepstars.

The grinding of Tribute continues

On the morning of June 11, we saw the Imperium destroy not one, but two Keepstars belonging to PanFam forces in the region of Tribute. The first to fall was in the system of M-OEE8 and the other within 0-Y. Despite the timing by PanFam to the AU timezone for these structures the number of pilots presented by the Imperium still exceeded 1600. PanFam did not wish to contest the destruction of their Keepstars and so no forces were assembled by them.

There has been no let up in the pace of operations from the Imperium. New people continue to step up into roles and learn the tricks of the various trades needed for warfare. Nearly two trillion ISK has been lost by PanFam in the destruction of infrastructure alone. Quite a tidy sum. Although it should easily be replaced with all the rental income stashed away.

Skill Urself Killed Itself?

In the latter part of the week it was leaked to Reddit that Skill Urself would be disbanding. At this time there has been no sign of corporations moving on, although it has been suggested that some corporations will be joining Fraternity. Only time will tell as to how Skill Urself pilots ultimately decide to disperse. But this does lead to some rather interesting questions. Despite only having 1,228 members Skill Urself holds the largest sov area in the game. Quite the feat, I wonder how they manage it. With their disbanding it then brings into question what will happen to the 259 systems that they exercise control over.

It is probably prudent to remind you of some of the history of Skill Urself. They consist of groups from Pizza, NCDot, PL, Lumpy and even Triumvirate to name but a few. All of which have apparently no links back to PanFam. Skill Urself was also very instrumental in the destruction of the DRF. As we should remember only too well, the destruction of the DRF greatly benefited PanFam and their rental desires. But again, I am sure that there are no connections between Skill Urself and PanFam. None at all. None whatsoever.

PanFam efforts in the South

Although PanFam are not really trying to defend their own territories in the north, they do seem inclined to defend the territory of Fraternity. We have seen PanFam leadership offer very flattering words to Fraternity in the past. Especially when Fraternity were complicating matters for Legacy Coalition and the DRF. On Thursday, June 13, we saw fleets from PL, NCDot and PH all heading down south to help Fraternity defend.

But where PanFam go the Imperium are likely to follow. This was the case in this instance and the Imperium also dispatched forces to the south in order to shoot PanFam where possible. One has to wonder about the wisdom in Fraternity continuing to call on such allies. But perhaps this is a desperate measure given that PanFam betrayed Dead Coalition and are in need of some support in the AU timezone.

Fragmented PanFam Meta

PanFam still seem to be struggling with control of the meta. There are still some trying to put forward the idea that PanFam are vastly outnumbered. While at the same time arguing that PanFam have a very generous capital subsidy program and that they have loads of capitals. Meanwhile there are still many posts declaring that Goons have won EVE and that the game is dying as a result—perhaps in the hope that CCP will do something to cripple the might of the Imperium. What a sad state of affairs that is. It is also very amusing given that there were far fewer complaints when it was PanFam in a position of seemingly unassailable power. It does not take a great deal of effort to see what was being said by PanFam members during the Casino War. Oh how times have changed.

As mentioned previously, perhaps the plan of PanFam leadership is to wait for one of their many arguments to actually gain some traction. But this seeming failure of leadership does have an effect on the many PanFam line members. Already we are seeing PanFam self-destructing vessels of various sizes. There has also been considerable movement of capital ships further to the east. But probably most surprising has been the use of Thrasher and Cormorant doctrines by PanFam forces. Not just by PH members either. All the time numbers in the PanFam staging systems continue to decline and fleets seemingly less complete. These are troubling signs for any leadership still present.

As always feel free to leave your comments and opinions below. Stay tuned to INN for the latest news in New Eden as it happens.

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Comments

  • Lrrp

    While Panfam may have loads of isk stashed, they still need territory to place capitol assembly arrays to build their caps. Loads of isk is meaningless when you can’t build your titans.

    June 21, 2019 at 10:24 am
    • Moomin Amatin Lrrp

      This is partly what confuses me so. For years PL/NC have had higher recruitment standards. Things like having to have a Super or Titan with a minimum amount of skill-points. Also they have advertised as being PvP focused. Yet when a chance to really show their combat effectiveness comes along they simply run and hide. Surely they already had all the tools to take on a fight and plenty of ISK in the war-chest from all the income over the years.

      June 21, 2019 at 12:08 pm
      • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

        They have the titans and supers…problem is rorq/mining changes make owning a super/titan so easy even your average goon scrub can afford one. Supercapitals of any flavor are no longer a novelty/specialty weapon. They lost that status probably even back in 2012 but even more so now.

        June 22, 2019 at 2:14 am
        • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

          Yes. Without the dirty casino money and the 60 or so alliances going up against The Imperium, PL and NCDot would never have dared make a move against The Imperium.

          They would have run away as they have this time. Or even worse start a campaign against Provi. Or even worse than that, gone on a campaign to kill ratters and miners as I hear that is now the pinnacle of elite PvP.

          June 22, 2019 at 4:26 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            60 alliances? Most of the weight lifting was done by like 3 or so alliances particularly in the “setting up” of Imperium to fall. Those being TISHU, Mercenary Coalition and OSS. NC, PL, TEST, Darkness, and everyone else that gang piled on top of them only did so in an “official invasion” after Co2’s decision to defect as they saw their coalition’s incompetence.

            Hate to bring this up…but how was the money casinos gave to MBC “dirty?” Did the casinos buy that ISK? If not how was it dirty?

            June 22, 2019 at 5:01 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Revisionist view you have there.

            Yet again, ask CCP as they made that decision and you have had all of the public information spoon-fed to you already.

            June 22, 2019 at 6:25 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            What part is revisionist? Did TISHU, MC and OSS not open up fronts in Cloud Ring, Tribute and Tenal/Branch? Did NCPL not hold off until Co2 defected to make an official declaration of invasion/war? Up until then they did the whole “haha just gutfites guys.”

            I’m asking you what part of the ISK MBC got was “dirty.” You don’t know as usual because you are either uninformed or lying.

            June 22, 2019 at 6:35 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Virtually everything you say to be honest. As long as it supports your personal goal of “attacking the strongest narrative”. Another name for “the strongest narrative” is the truth.

            So during The Casino War, who held Tribute? Was it Co2 perhaps? But have you not said that they were the PvP backbone of The Imperium? Are you really trying to say that Co2 were unable to handle a small incursion? Please make your mind up. The contradictions you make are simply too amusing.

            You are just repeating your same inane and unfounded statements in the hope that some poor fool will accept them as fact. Meanwhile the rest of Eve moves on.

            June 23, 2019 at 12:57 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            No another name for “the strongest narrative” is not the truth. Narrative in the sense I am speaking of when it’s critical is the low IQ emotional based garbage you post.

            Who said Co2 wasn’t able to hold Tribute? Co2 did a great job holding tribute. Certainly better than SMA holding Fade or Init holding their space or Goons holding the north.

            Yeah thought so. You call it “dirty isk” but you are simply a liar. You can’t even explain yourself.

            June 23, 2019 at 3:17 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            You said that it was just OSS and MC having a pop at Co2. Surely they could have handled that. I mean after all Theta squad easily dealt with the SMA problem. It was only once SMA sent Theta away that they got into trouble again.

            I have explained the dirty casino money to you more than once. You are just unable to accept it. Which is fine if that is what you wish. What you think really has little bearing on anything of importance.

            June 23, 2019 at 6:39 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Co2 was dealing with the problem. They had the most successful front. Theta Squad didn’t do shit about anything in Fade. They dropped Chimeras once and caught like 1 blops (if that.)

            You’ve never explained the “dirty casino money” except saying “CCP banned people so…MBC got RMT money.” But that’s nonsense and you know it. Again explain how MBC received RMTed money.

            June 23, 2019 at 6:34 pm
          • spartan885 Seraph IX Basarab

            If I remember right we had logs from MBC and certain casino’s (IWI) documenting isk in return for war with the imperium….these casino’s are actually the cause of the entire conflict starting with SMA and then expanding. the subscint banning of all casino’s from the game for RMT is quite telling. ….. this is all from just some laymen typing up what he remembers from like 2 years ago. for Co2 doing well early on…..well I Thought it was because they were not really the focus seeing as the attack focused on PB and fade early on and as a conspiracy I just thought seeing as they flipped they may have been cutting deals

            June 23, 2019 at 6:55 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab spartan885

            -_-;

            Yes we know casinos gave money to MBC. The question specifically was how the ISK given to MBC was “RMT ISK.”

            Did casinos who make money buy ISK and give it to MBC? Did MBC buy the ISK from casinos? Nobody seems to be able to answer that here.

            June 23, 2019 at 9:17 pm
          • can anyone answer it? if one isk has been proven to be rmt’ed then all the isk is suspect and CCP has said there was rmt.

            June 24, 2019 at 4:19 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Vertigoe

            Yes but the accusation isn’t that casinos were doing RMTing. They probably were…as sellers…not buyers of ISK since they made ISK via gambling. The accusation is that somehow RMTed ISK got into the pockets of MBC causing them to invade. That’d require casinos to buy ISK (lulwut) and pay MBC with that.

            June 24, 2019 at 4:46 am
          • They were financed by people who were banned for RMT, so they get to live with that stench, that is all it takes.

            June 24, 2019 at 5:14 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Vertigoe

            No it doesn’t. The “stench” would have been if MBC people bought ISK with IRL money or if casinos had bought the ISK they paid MBC with with IRL money. Neither scenario is plausible. Casinos make ISK so they wouldn’t buy it.

            June 24, 2019 at 9:17 pm
          • well that is your opinion, great thing about them we all have one. We can go back and forth all day, you will reeeee that you are right and I will do the same back. And they were selling the isk they made hence rmt.

            June 24, 2019 at 9:20 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Vertigoe

            I mean they’re not my “opinions.” They are fact established by interviews I carried out.

            http://evenews24.com/2016/06/26/circle-of-two-defection-part-1-shattering-the-facade/

            The full 4 parts are linked here if you want to read the extensive reporting on it: http://evenews24.com/2016/07/17/circle-of-two-defection-part-4-fell-by-a-whisper/

            June 24, 2019 at 9:56 pm
          • oh ok, like I would ever take the word of a guy famous for his dislike of the Imperium and his own inflated sense of himself in the history of this game using his own articles to show how is opinions are facts, publishing on a site famous for it’s biased reporting of “news”.

            June 24, 2019 at 10:31 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Vertigoe

            So don’t take my word. Take the word of Carneros, Grath, Sabre etc. That’s why I interviewed people as soon as the whole thing happened and documented literally months of logs to prove everything.

            “famous for his dislike of the Imperium”

            I don’t have any love for Imperium, NCPL, GOTG, or Legacy. You’re not special in my consideration. Blocs are meh.

            June 24, 2019 at 10:42 pm
          • you were part of NC., so that says enough for me. I don’t think you are special either, you are just one of those guys in a room who thinks their voice is the most important one and everyone needs to know it. Don’t bother replying although I know you cant resist and are probably typing furiously now.

            June 24, 2019 at 10:55 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Vertigoe

            lol yeah and it sucked. NCdot was literally the worst gameplay I’ve ever experienced. But look how mentally tribal you are. “oh grug no think u gud cuz i pley with other bunga bunga tribe!” And I don’t think my voice is the only one to be heard.

            “Don’t bother replying.” You’ve been replying to me too about 8 times now. Haven’t made any remarks about how you are bad for being with your space guild or how you must think this and that way. Just having a conversation. Hope you’re day’s going okay.

            June 24, 2019 at 11:03 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            More revisionist nonsense about something you know nothing about.

            It has already been explained more than once.

            Why are you having such a public meltdown? At this point I would say that you need to get some help. What you are doing is simply not normal by any standard.

            June 23, 2019 at 7:24 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Except I was coordinating with OSS/OOS in Venal and in talks with Co2 since late December of 2015. You were…?

            “public meltdowns” look more like this:

            Moomin Amatin03/30/2017
            I will be happy to answer that question once you admit that you would like a nice black cock or two up your arse

            June 23, 2019 at 9:20 pm
          • Think you got some history wrong. PL was seiging Vale and LAWN before co2 bailed. I was in LAWN at the time.

            June 23, 2019 at 8:40 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Vertigoe

            They weren’t “seiging.” At that time it was just “gudfites.” Official Declarations of Invasion and War etc occurred after Co2’s defection in large march.

            June 23, 2019 at 9:21 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            On the day Co2 flipped PL/NC/Test and a whole load of others were in the battle of that day. Co2 had already planned the flip, the deal was done. Information was passed on from Co2 to the MBC and for some reason Co2 were really keen to help other Imperium members evacuate their capital ships. That plan went awry though. I for one was watching hundreds of MBC members in capitals waiting to execute a trap.

            Seriously though, get help.

            June 23, 2019 at 10:33 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Yeah thanks I was there relaying the defection to Vince the previous night. My point stands though.

            June 23, 2019 at 10:52 pm
          • no they were not gudfites, I was on the border of tribute evacing vale when co2 left the CFC. I suggest you go back and reread your notes on what actually was happening, the big fight in 2dwm had already happened and we lost.

            June 24, 2019 at 2:55 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Vertigoe

            No they weren’t actual “good fights.” I think you are misunderstanding the terminology. “Gudfites” is ironically used in this context when people attack you but they don’t want to commit (at least on paper) to a full blown war or invasion. Example:

            “Haha weren’t invading it was just gudfites.”

            This is done in case the war goes bad for the attacker and they can save face from failing at an invasion. Prior to Co2 defecting, I don’t remember seeing any NCPL declaration of an invasion. They weren’t committing to actual eviction of the Imperium.

            June 24, 2019 at 4:45 am
          • I guess by your opinion there wasnt a war until after co2 defected. By our opinion the war was well underway, hence the evac order to Saranen before co2 even defected. I think our view holds out in hindsight as the correct view. No need to reply with telling me how wrong I am and right you are we can just both disagree.

            June 24, 2019 at 4:48 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Vertigoe

            I never said that the war “didn’t start until Co2 defected.” it essentially ended the moment that they did. As Carneros and other leaders from both sides said, once Co2 defected, serious attempts by the Imperium to retake the north were gone. The war started around December of 2015.

            What I said was that NCPL themselves didn’t declare war until after Co2 defected. That’s not the same as saying “there was no war.” But you have to remember, groups like NCPL, TEST and Darkness showed up to the war sometime in March…when the whole thing had kicked off months before.

            June 24, 2019 at 9:15 pm
      • DrkyDrky Moomin Amatin

        I think another reason why NCPL doesn’t want to fight anymore may be the fact that the wide skill-gap that used to exist between CFC/Imperium and NCPL is almost non-existent these days. GSF has adapted and is continuing to improve their PVP capacity.

        I can also confidently say that many SIGs in the Imperium may actually be more elite than NC. / PL, I’ve seen multiple instances where these SIGs slaughter the so called “elites” while being heavily outnumbered.

        Gone are the days where 80 NC. zealots would tear through 200 CFC drakes.

        June 22, 2019 at 4:34 am
        • Moomin Amatin DrkyDrky

          I think you are onto something there. The Imperium continued to push itself and try new things. Always looking to punch up instead of down. If there is any single reason why PL/NCDot are in the spot that they are in it is due to being so risk averse.

          June 22, 2019 at 4:40 am
  • spartan885

    Another great article. Thanks for the write up.

    June 21, 2019 at 12:48 pm
    • Moomin Amatin spartan885

      Very kind of you to let me know dear. I am glad you like it. 🙂

      June 21, 2019 at 1:15 pm
  • Seraph IX Basarab

    Dunno why you keep harping about numbers if “they don’t matter.” Even if you throw skillu in the panfam camp, doesn’t come close to match the Imperium. Why you’re trying to push this myth of equal numbers is expected of course.

    Curious what source you have stating that “PanFam invaded Branch in an attempt to install Co2” there though.

    June 21, 2019 at 8:32 pm
    • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

      I have never said that the numbers are equal. As for the numbers being important, well one side has based all of their actions, or more correctly inaction, on their view of the numbers. This is a complete misrepresentation and hypocritical to the degree that it makes all of this war worthwhile alone.

      You can read all about Co2 in these fine articles:

      https://imperium.news/co2-state-of-the-alliance-gigx-returns-again/
      https://imperium.news/breaking-news-c02-to-disband/
      https://imperium.news/the-disbanding-of-co2-a-requiem-in-five-acts/

      I suggest you follow INN on Twitter or Facebook. That way you can always be up on the latest news from the premier New Eden news site.

      June 21, 2019 at 10:16 pm
      • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

        >premier
        >news site
        >implying

        okay.

        Numbers are of course a factor. And when the game changes weaken your game play style and strengthen that of your enemies it’s not hard to see why this would happen

        June 22, 2019 at 12:16 am
        • Erick Asmock Seraph IX Basarab

          Tell that to BoB.

          June 22, 2019 at 12:39 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Erick Asmock

            Tell them what? BoB was out numbered when they fell. And in large part thanks to PL.

            June 22, 2019 at 2:12 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            The PL joined up with the new BoB (NCDot) and extorted nullsec for years. All the time being able to outnumber anyone when it came to Supers and Titans. Now they do not and you are whining about that. But you are definitely not a PanFam mouthpiece. Weird huh?

            June 22, 2019 at 4:38 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Extorted who? Are you confusing them with Mitten’s Viceroyalty program?

            Again just because I don’t agree with your 55 IQ point propaganda doesn’t mean I’m a “mouth piece” for NCPL. It’s a circle jerk relic that deserves dying off if not extreme reformation. But what you are presenting is rarely factual.

            June 22, 2019 at 4:58 pm
        • Raw numbers are not a factor. All the Krab alts are not deployed but, based upon what I have seen, perhaps we should have only deployed battle Rorquals north. As for numbers of pilots willing to fight… there is no question the Imperium outnumbers PamFam many times over in the latter.

          When you say weaken your game play style can you elaborate please? You are the voice of reason here, Sir, so please teach us. I would hate to assume things like actively using your space is one of those things. CCP doesn’t want to go back to passive income because they want active people playing the game.

          June 22, 2019 at 1:59 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Xandryll

            I’m not NCPL and tbh I’ll be happy the day the entire coalition dies…right after Imperium. What I mean by their gameplay style weakened is because before the moon changes, strong pvp centric groups could stomp you in the face and take your room and be rewarded for it with only a handful of people doing moon work. Now you HAVE to be mining. You have to do pve. It’s no longer an optional thing. To be fair I think that’s the way it should be. But that’s not how the game was initially as NCPL developed. The game shifted favoring people who focus on PvE… Goons and friends…and away from groups like NCPL. Now is it NCPL’s leadership’s fault for not adapting? Sure. But is it also true that Imperium didn’t really need to adapt to the new gameplay style because the change already suited them? Also true.

            June 22, 2019 at 2:12 am
          • Ok so I did guess it. I agree that NCPL culture was suited to the older null sec economic model. As you said, a small number of people could manage the financial income of the Alliance. CCP needed to change that and put more pilots in space at risk for a reward. I would disagree, however, that the Imperium did not need to adapt. The Imperium implemented a well thought out economic plan. The Imperium also does all of their production themselves so PVE is not necessarily a focus of the Imperium as a whole because you have to have the tools of war to wage war. Lets also not forget that the Imperium started from square one in Delve. A series of intelligent decisions on the part of the Imperium along with completely incompetent decisions of those who evicted the Imperium from the north led to where things are today.

            June 22, 2019 at 3:39 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Xandryll

            It’s not that just a “small amount of people could manage the income.” It’s that you didn’t need to spend time grinding rocks to make your alliance profitable. As long as NCPL could face stomp their enemy, they could lay claim to their patch of moons and keep on face stomping.

            Imperium didn’t really need to adapt because their player base already focused much more on pve activities than either NC or PL. “More people in space at risk” is kind of a joke since rorqs/supercap umbrella/all the structures make that risk quite minimal.

            So yeah did NCPL refuse to adapt? Sure. But their game got fucked up a lot harder than IMPs did.

            June 22, 2019 at 4:13 am
          • Yes, as long as NCPL could do the face stomping. Unfortunately, I would have to stress that statement is written in the past tense. NCPL has not mounted a significant and successful campaign in quite some time.

            I agree that, comparatively, the Imperium is more PVE focused than NCPL. Currently, the Imperium is more PVP focused than NCPL as well. I also agree that the Imperium is gone to extensive lengths to mitigate the risks associated with Rorquals and Supers in space. This brings more of an evil grin to my face than shame though because I’m proud of that fact. PL drops the occasional dread bomb and high five themselves for the dead Goon titan or Rorqual fleet. But they have allowed the Imperium to be what they are today. They could have stopped or seriously crippled it from happening had they followed the Imperium to Delve.

            I think this is the first time that I agreed with all the points you made in a particular comment. It feels odd yet satisfying.

            June 22, 2019 at 6:05 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Xandryll

            Yes NCPL’s campaigns have sucked. In large part because of the game shifting away from passive income streams in the form of moons and in favor of pve/industry active groups like the Imperium.

            The Imperium is not “currently more PVP focused.” It isn’t because of pvp capability or prowess that the Imperium is doing anything. It’s raw weight of numbers and industry. When you can buy supers as easily as you can now because of skill injectors/pve changes that’s what happens.

            But yeah PL especially has made a lot of dumb meta mistakes. First off messing with TEST when TEST followed Goons to Delve to finish them off in 2016. NC for evicting Co2 and TEST from Tribute and Vale. The providence campaign was dumb.For the past 3 years NCPL’s been completely oblivious/incompetent/unstrategic to anything regarding the meta.

            June 22, 2019 at 4:56 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Then why have you not taken charge of NC/PL? I mean if you have all the answers then surely you are well placed to fix things? Or is it perhaps that like so many others you just talk the talk and are unable to walk at all? I mean if you look at your own past it is littered with failures. You then just pack up and move on to leech from the work of others in the next group/thing you join.

            June 23, 2019 at 1:09 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            lol “littered with failures.” talk about projection. Look how you don’t address a single one of my point but instead dive into some inane personal attack on me.

            June 23, 2019 at 3:19 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            You mean like writing half a dozen or so articles where I call you a racist, homophobe with mental issues? To be honest I would never lower myself to such a level. Can you say the same? 😉

            June 23, 2019 at 6:36 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Show me “half a dozen articles where I call you a racist homophobe with mental issues.” I’ll wait.

            June 23, 2019 at 6:31 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Seriously, get help. You were never normal but this is just a new level.

            June 23, 2019 at 7:26 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            lol you make a claim…I call your bluff…now I need to get help? Please again show me a half dozen articles where i call you those things. Go ahead.

            June 23, 2019 at 10:49 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Are you seriously trying to dispute the things you have written about me? – lol

            Seriously, get help.

            June 23, 2019 at 10:56 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Show everyone the “half a dozen articles where I call you a racist homophobe with mental issues.”

            We’re waiting.

            June 23, 2019 at 11:53 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Everyone can see what you have written should they choose to. Why would I link your blog posts here to entertain you for something that is so easy to find? This type of “logic” is why I think that you should get help.

            June 24, 2019 at 12:35 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            lol those articles don’t exist my dude. There is no “half dozen articles where I call you a racist homophobe with a mental illness.”

            June 24, 2019 at 1:00 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Well someone mined all those materials needed for NCDot and PL Supers and Titans. So your argument here is weak at best.

            June 22, 2019 at 4:35 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            the hell…how is that even a point? “someone mined” yes someone did but it mostly wasn’t NCPL people. Especially people who have had supers/titans pre-2016 (most of them). Point is NCPL was never a pve/industry oriented group. Goons always had. So when the shift favored pve/industry more in the past few years, Goons were “already there” and NCPL needed to shift ways of doing things.

            June 22, 2019 at 4:53 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            So you are suggesting that NC/PL got all of their Titans and Supers by credit card? Or did they actually participate in other aspects of the game, like mining and industry?

            June 23, 2019 at 1:05 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            It’s not a hard concept Moomin. Even you should be able to understand this. NCPL were never an industry heavy alliance. They relied mostly on passive moon income/merc work and then later on renting. Try to focus here. The point was that NCPL had to shift gears with the pve industry changes. Goons did not. They were already much more pve/industry oriented to begin with.

            June 23, 2019 at 3:20 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            For such a PvP focused group they sure do hide a lot. When they are not hiding they are punching down. Their excuse, “we are not PvE focused”. This translates to, “we do not play the game as CCP intends it to be played”.

            Meanwhile there are loads of people who are not suffering at all. Weird that.

            June 23, 2019 at 6:46 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Most people punch down. Goons included.

            “As CCP intended” has again shifted from a pvp focus to a more pve/industry focused. NCPL had to change gears (and they did it poorly) where as Goons just kept doing as they had been.

            June 24, 2019 at 4:48 am
        • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

          You make some stuff up about what you think I said. All the time the numbers are there for all to see should they want to put in the effort. We have gone over this loads already. So if anyone is pushing a false narrative about numbers it is you. You can just get the data and prove it once and for all. So if anyone is “harping about numbers” it is you.

          I also take it that the links for Co2 met with your approval else you would have harped on about that. For someone who claims to have such insight into things you really do miss a lot.

          June 22, 2019 at 4:30 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            I mean you had a fellow goon that literally pulled up the numbers and instead of admitting you were wrong you whined about how I was going to quote him from now on.

            I didn’t make any disagreement regarding Co2 and what happened in the north. I just asked where you got your information from. Hard to “miss” something I was on top of when it was happening.

            June 22, 2019 at 4:51 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            No, there was someone who was talking nonsense without any data supporting an PanFam talking point. The data is there for anyone to get as already discussed at length. You are simply too lazy or incompetent to get it.

            Of course you were on top of it all. Nothing gets past you right? – lol.

            June 22, 2019 at 6:23 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            “Someone” who was punky260

            https://zkillboard.com/character/90747311/

            A goon. He posted this

            There you go: https://imgur.com/gcyS4UV
            Those are pretty much the numbers I posted in the first article comment section, dunno why you kept asking for them…

            So like I said, a fellow goon to you literally disproved you. But suddenly they are just “someone” and nobody else but you “understood” what was said. Okay moomin

            June 22, 2019 at 6:37 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Read previous comments. You found an idiot of a goon, well done – lol. What were the chances of that huh?

            June 23, 2019 at 1:03 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            First he was just “some guy.” and now he must be an idiot because he disagrees with you.

            June 23, 2019 at 3:21 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Unlike some I am fine with people disagreeing with me. I will even admit error when evidence is provided. Can you say the same? – lol

            Anyhoo, the numbers being put forward by PanFam are so weak it is unreal. But if you want to support that narrative then far be it for me to stop you. Meanwhile the data is there in plain sight for all to see.

            June 23, 2019 at 6:42 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Wow, you found the dumb goon. Well done you. As you know only too well they went real quiet when I challenged them on the numbers. “It is super easy” they said. Yet no proof has been offered. My point still stands. The number disparity between PanFam and The Imperium is a lot less than some people are trying to argue.

            You did not dispute it as you got to hear it from gigx’s own mouth. Hard to dispute that. But if I offered anything less you would have tried to twist and spin it as you normally do. Any chance you have to mention Co2 you take eagerly. It is like you think that they were important or something.

            June 23, 2019 at 1:02 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            I found a dumb goon. He told me something about black cocks and his name was moomin. 😀

            Proof was given to you. The numbers were linked. Counting BOT and WERMT as pvp relevant numbers is a joke. Nobody buys this.

            I don’t spin. That’s your job. You’re literally paid to lie for goon propaganda. And you keep bringing up Co2 not me.

            June 23, 2019 at 3:23 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            And counting all of those “goon krabs” makes sense to you and is not spin? – lol.

            Any chance you have to mention Co2 you do. One of the funniest things about you to be honest.

            June 23, 2019 at 6:44 am
  • Guilford Australis

    Heh. I was in ProviBloc when Pandemic Legion decided it would demonstrate its strength by crapping on one of the weakest coalitions in nullsec. We (ProviBloc) were absolutely guaranteed to lose everything – every structure, all sov, and every ship we put on grid with PL. We had maybe three titans in the entire coalition, while PL was dropping supercapital fleets on miners and entosis frigates. Yet we fought to the very end. Every time PL undocked, we did, too.

    The contrast between that – a scenario in which the defenders could very legitimately claim to be outnumbered and outgunned yet still fought back – and the current farce PL and NC are orchestrating up north is astonishing. NC/PL sympathizers can hyperventilate about numbers all they want, but at the end of the day we’re looking at a spectacular failure of willpower.

    June 22, 2019 at 11:31 am
    • Moomin Amatin Guilford Australis

      The bit I am really looking forward to is how PanFam will spin their re-taking of sov once The Imperium goes home.

      But the best bit of this war for me has to be that PanFam can never shit talk an alliance that they blob in the future. They can never again say “HTFU, adapt or die” or any of the other nonsense that they have spouted for years.

      June 22, 2019 at 3:08 pm
      • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

        Panfam’s said a bunch of stupid shit but I don’t think “adapt or die” is one of them…unless they were ironically using your phrase.

        June 22, 2019 at 4:50 pm
    • J Moravia Guilford Australis

      As a fellow veteran of the Provi War, I just have to say that most PanFam apologists will have absolutely no idea how true this post is. Provi-bloc held off Pandemic Legion and friends for six weeks, almost singlehandedly (occasionally Goonswarm or TEST and friends would pop by to third-party, but we never knew when and couldn’t count on their participation). The degree to which PanFam has rolled over like a dying cockroach in Tribute is absolutely hilarious compared with the way Provi-bloc ferociously resisted them.

      June 23, 2019 at 3:34 am