Imperium vs PanFam: A Week Of War – Part 3

Moomin Amatin 2019-06-13

Header art by Major Sniper.

Welcome to the round up for the third week of war between The Imperium and PanFam. If you want the full reports from previous weeks you can find them here (Part 1)  and here (Part 2). Before diving into the events of this third week of war it is necessary to clear up a contentious point from last week. Well at least contentious for some. That is the numbers allocated on either side.

In week two it was made very clear how the numbers were calculated and the effort that went into them. Then, as completely expected, some jumped in and said that there was no way that PanFam numbers were that high. At the same time they seemed adamant that the numbers of the Imperium were totally accurate or should even be higher. As was said in the comments, the only people who can truly assess who is on each side would be the likes of someone like Squizz. Work would be required to identify active combatants on each side. I do not have access to the data and no one was offering to use that approach. If someone is willing to step up with actual numbers then I am more than happy to accept them. You see, here at INN we are more than happy to admit error when such things occur. If we did not then The Casino War would still be called “The War of Sovless Aggression” by members of the Imperium. But the main point I was making is that PanFam are not outnumbered to the degree that some claim them to be. In fact I would be surprised if it was even close to 2:1, more like 1.1:1.

The Undecided Name War

I loved the responses from the first week of war with regard to the naming of this war. At this time there still seems to be no real front runner. Although some of the suggestions in the comments were very good. I just hope that a good name sticks and that we do not resort to some lame name such as “The Norther War”. Perhaps some third party will come up with a good name as was the case with The Casino War that will ultimately gain traction.

Events of the Week

During the course of this week there have not been any significant battles. There were a few fun fights to be had, but the numbers of participants and ISK lost was, in relative terms, pretty small. But there has been plenty of action of a different sort for both sides. PanFam continue to pick their battles in the Northern theatre of conflict. These however seem to be few and far between. There are the occasional fleets that are sent out to interfere with the efforts of the Imperium, but with little real effect. The region of Tenal has almost been cleared of all PanFam influence. Additionally the region of Tribute has had most of the strategic iHubs destroyed. But in the south PanFam can lay claim to greater success in their continued killing of those from the Imperium who decided not to deploy to the north. If anything it could be easily argued that the efforts by PanFam in the south are even helping the Imperium. With PanFam being active in the south it only serves to encourage members of the Imperium to head north to the front lines. And of course the industry folk within the Imperium are unlikely to be too vexed about the increase in demand for the products they offer.

The forces of the Imperium meanwhile continue to ravage the north. For instance on one morning alone the Imperium destroyed 38 citadels. Of course all of these citadels were un-rigged, empty and in some cases not even belonging to PanFam at all. Oh those silly goons. One of the main objectives of the Imperium was to allow for the development of new talent in the various war departments. This goes from GSOL to FCs to logi anchors and a host of other supporting roles required to effectively conduct a campaign. Given that PanFam have decided not to contest the actions aside from minor efforts, it has proven to be an excellent time for new people to step up and get their feet wet.

With the different approaches from each side to this war both sides are able to claim victories of sorts. PanFam continue to have fun in the south, or at least those that are able to hunt the area. As Imperium forces continue to “glass” Tribute and develop new talent. But it is hard to say that both approaches are beneficial in the long term. One is focused on doing new things with new people and the other is reliant on doing old things with old people. I will let you decide on which is which.

Where did all the rent go?

One of the major unanswered questions so far of this conflict is where has all the rental money gone for PanFam? Even a cursory glance at Dotlan or the Coalition Map should raise some questions for the more enquiring minds. In the east there is a dozen or so regions that seem to fall under the influence of renting. Should you even be tempted to say “but those are not owned by PanFam members” just take a look at that map again. If you really think that there is no relationship between “non-PanFam” rental empires and PanFam itself then you should just stop reading right here.

From the Alliances tab on Dotlan you have three alliances that seem to exist mainly for renting. Between them they control a total of 505 systems. Even at just a few billion ISK per month this soon adds up to a more significant number. Yet we also know that renters have been responsible for providing upgrades to their rented systems out of their own pocket. So almost all of this income can be seen to be profit. But profit for who exactly? Additionally you have to consider how long these regions have offered rental income. It has been many years for most of them.

I will not dwell on this matter more here as it is worthy of an article or two in its own right. Perhaps someone will be inclined to report more on this intriguing story at some point. The fact remains that content opportunities are being missed because one side does not or cannot afford it. A truly sad state of affairs for their members.

Wrapping up

So although there have been very few major headlines with this weeks conflict, activity has been very high. At least on the side of the Imperium. We will have to wait and see if this coming week offers more content as there are some key battles due to take place.

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Comments

  • Seraph IX Basarab

    “Rental profit for who!?!?!?”

    Uhh probably NC and PL. Why are you trying to make this seem scandalous? Who else is it supposed to profit? BREAKING NEWS: NC and PL make money on renting out systems. What is it you are trying to insinuate?

    June 13, 2019 at 7:34 am
    • Rammel Kas Seraph IX Basarab

      Well… interesting you should ask that…

      Given how token any resistance has been I guess the question now becomes more one of “what next?”, don’t you agree?

      June 13, 2019 at 10:43 am
      • Seraph IX Basarab Rammel Kas

        I guess. I always thought PanFam’s overall strategy in their MO tended to be lacking. Maybe this will be a wake up call.

        June 13, 2019 at 3:19 pm
        • Rammel Kas Seraph IX Basarab

          Hmm… actually saw Killah undock a thrasher fleet tonight. I think he was trying to do the whole theatrical rage-undock from a Sotiyo we were shooting. Then he got greedy and was baited into a chemo fleet bomb. The macharials they also had on grid saw this and scurried over to a nearby astrahus to dock very quickly.

          June 14, 2019 at 8:53 pm
    • J Moravia Seraph IX Basarab

      I believe the question was whether it goes into the alliance’s coffers in order to promote everyone’s well-being, or whether it goes into the wallets of a handful of people who are enriching themselves at no benefit to anyone else (as was evidently the case with the I Choose You trading network in Perimeter, so let’s not pretend PanFam has no history of doing shady stuff like that – https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/89lneb/perimeter_i_choose_you/dws9jfc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x).

      June 13, 2019 at 10:46 am
      • Moomin Amatin J Moravia

        Given that Seraph has benefited from ISK from PanFam for many years I would not expect him to ask too many tricky questions on this subject. So much for “all of the news, none of the bullshit”. 😉

        June 13, 2019 at 1:37 pm
        • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

          Do you have some kind of source or proof? Which isk are you referring to?

          June 13, 2019 at 3:18 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            So are you seriously going to suggest that your blog site has not received ISK from PanFam for years? – lol.

            June 13, 2019 at 3:58 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Only for advertising as we have done for countless other groups. But to equate this to say…your situation where INN is literally the Goon mouthpiece media site is wishful thinking.

            June 13, 2019 at 4:01 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Already we have gone from “where is your proof?” to “oh that ISK”. Well that went quicker than I thought it would. Also there are others that have at least claimed in the past to have given great sums to your blog site.

            INN has never been shy about who they are. Also INN are more than happy to correct errors when they occur. Perhaps this is the reason why you spend so much time on our glorious website.

            June 13, 2019 at 4:09 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            We haven’t “gone” from anywhere. EN24 advertises for anyone willing to pay…just like any other site. You aren’t revealing anything scandalous here. “Others who have claimed” oh…okay. Well there are “others who have claimed” the moon is cheese.

            I spend time on your site because the comments are hilarious.

            June 13, 2019 at 4:12 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Your blog site is also quite happy to publish paid pieces as well. Even a cursory glance shows what narratives you are trying to push.

            June 13, 2019 at 4:15 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Like individual pieces that are paid for? Damn I want in on that deal. Since it only takes a “cursory glance” can you show me which pieces?

            June 13, 2019 at 4:15 pm
          • Havish Montak Moomin Amatin

            INN literally stands for IMPERIUM News Network. Of course it’s going to tell things from an Imperium narrative.

            Panfam: Dock all faction Titans!!
            Panfam: Let’s transfer our assets to alt corps.
            PL: I remember a ragnarok that belonged to PL and the pilot abandoned the Rag so he could drop Corp.
            PL: During the Casino war extract using exploits to tackle Titans.
            Panfam: Not coming to completely crush the Imperium in the Casino war as the RMT funding was stopped.
            Panfam: Writing reddit posts for every Victory and we only see 1 per week. hahahaahahaha

            June 14, 2019 at 9:49 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Havish Montak

            Curious how did MBC people get RMT money from the casinos? Work me through the entire process.

            June 14, 2019 at 4:25 pm
          • Havish Montak Seraph IX Basarab

            The casinos literally paid contracts to alliances to attack the Imperium. CCP actually released a statement and showed wallet deductions in the trillions for people who had taken RMT money during the Casino war.

            June 14, 2019 at 7:16 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Havish Montak

            So Casinos (Who make ISK) bought ISK (even though they made it through casino gambling) and then gave this ISK to MBC members?

            Which MBC people had trillions deducted from their wallets?

            June 14, 2019 at 7:40 pm
          • Havish Montak Seraph IX Basarab

            I am shocked at the ignorance. The whole Casino war started because an SMA dude released logs showing the casinos did RMT. Therefore said Casinos went after SMA. SMA is part of Imperium and hence contracts were assigned against the Imperium. Casino war in a nutshell. The Casinos at first were almost appeased by CCP as people were buying more isk. But then the lawsuit happened and CCP couldn’t be bothered dealing with the gambling laws in countries and so banned the casinos in a EULA change. This was time with the Imperium move to Delve. So then the Imperium just killed enemies one at a time as they all went to in-fighting again.

            June 14, 2019 at 10:47 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Havish Montak

            That’s cute…but wrong. I’m just going to correct you on the name thing. World War Bee is the name recognized by the majority of people both during the war and now. “The Casino War” is a goon invention because of the severe asshurt they still carry over getting evicted from the north. Losers don’t decide war names. The “sp00ky are em tee” narrative is mostly conjecture and misrepresentation of the facts.

            Here’s actually some decent information on it.

            https://imperium.news/inside-iwantisk-vs-sma-war/

            “Casinos were appeased by CCP because people bought more ISK.”

            Literally what? CCP has nothing to gain from any of this.

            “The lawsuit happened.”

            Yes online gambling was condemned by IRL governments and CCP just nuked everyone involved in any of it. Not necessarily for RMT.

            That some casino/banker people sold isk…sure why not. Likewise in every corner of Eve there’s someone doing this. But the idea that MBC was funded by RMT money is nonsense. It literally doesn’t work.

            June 14, 2019 at 11:19 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            The Imperium called it “The War of Sovless Aggression” until a more fitting name appeared from a third party. Some of us can let go and admit error. I mean to call it “World War Bee” seems a bit stupid as those silly bees are doing just fine of late.

            CCP security team made about 10 bans relating to casino operators. These were then overturned by a high ranking CCP employee. They were later re-instated.

            Where did Lenny go? How much did Killah Bee say he lost as a result? Who bankrolled The Casino War for the MBC?

            June 15, 2019 at 7:36 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Just because Goons are doing fine now doesn’t mean you get to choose the name. tbh personally I think WWB sounds kinda jokey…kind of like the name Goonswarm. Mercenary War would have been better. But It’s WWB and that’s what we got. Losers don’t pick names.

            Again regarding the question of RMT…how did MBC groups get RMT money. Meaning how did they get money that was RMTed.

            Did the Casinos buy ISK with irl money and give it to MBC members? No, because Casinos were already making ISK.

            June 15, 2019 at 5:08 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            We can call it whatever we like. As I have said many times before, you can call it what you like as well. Time will tell as to what one wins out. For me it will always be The Casino War. That was a great name that described events very well.

            Why not ask the CCP security team these questions as they are better placed to answer them? I can only work with that was publicly released from the parties involved. That is available for you to find if you can be bothered and actually have a point. At the end of the day Lenny was banned for RMT as were a load of others. Spin that however you please.

            June 15, 2019 at 9:27 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Sure you can call it what you like and I can point out how laughable it is to be such a zealot over a video game guild.

            Since you know the answer why don’t you give it? How did MBC members get illegal money? Did casinos buy ISK? Why would they buy ISK if they are making it hand over fist with their casinos? These are serious questions and anyone with an ounce of critical thinking would see where the contradictions are.

            June 15, 2019 at 9:59 pm
          • Garreth Vlox Seraph IX Basarab

            “Only for advertising as we have done for countless other groups.”

            That’s a lot of words to say yes.

            June 14, 2019 at 8:59 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Garreth Vlox

            But it’s not “yes.” We get ISK from advertisers. That isk is then used to pay writers.

            INN on the other hand gets ISK from your alliance which in turn pays it’s staff in ISK. Then INN advertises for real $$$…which goes into the hands of… ??? ISK goes into INN. $$$ comes out. What do they call that?

            June 14, 2019 at 9:06 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            I hope that you have reported all your evidence to CCP so that they can enforce the EULA.

            June 15, 2019 at 7:44 am
      • Seraph IX Basarab J Moravia

        Probably a mix of both. It’s no secret most alliance leaders (including yours) tend to make use of the alliance wealth accumulated. But even then what are they going to use it for? Officer mods? It’s not like you can use the ISK for much anything else. Most of it goes into buying ships for alliance, logistics, etc. When I was in NCdot they ran programs to subsidize everyone that could fly a supercap.

        Let’s be honest here between us ladies in the powder room. You can act like there’s “spooky stuff going on behind the scenes” all you want to impress your noobs…but most people playing Eve for a minute know there’s nothing shady going on, at least not anymore than what you would see in any other coalition, including yours.

        June 13, 2019 at 3:17 pm
    • Havish Montak Seraph IX Basarab

      And people are dumb enough to pay this rent for no protection when Imperium comes knocking. Just look at the Spire, Malpais and Etherium Reach.

      June 14, 2019 at 9:43 am
  • hurf

    posting in a seraph honeypot article

    June 13, 2019 at 11:17 am
    • Guilford Australis hurf

      Good thing you made it in before all the oxygen got sucked out.

      June 13, 2019 at 1:46 pm
  • Punky260

    the only people who can truly assess who is on each side would be the likes of someone like Squizz

    Ah, why? The zKillboard API is openly accessible for everyone. So there is no “secret data” that only a handful of peoeple can lay their eyes on.
    Also: It is not senseful to look at the actual combatants/pilots fighting in this conflict, as there is one side who chose to avoid most fights (no critic on NCs tactic here). So to get useful numbers, it only makes sense to look at the official numbers on paper. Those are very clear and I have presented them in the comments at the last article. There is no magic behind those numbers.

    I don’t get why people have problems to admit that we (The Imperium) outnumber our enemies. This is part of EVE and it is the result of our great organisation and management. It is nothing to be ashamed of (rather the opposite). Why not accept it and explain that why we are so successful and our enemies often times failed to keep up, instead of trying to put the numbers behind a cloud of “zKillboard”, activities and renter numbers…

    And yes of course, only looking at a number on paper doesn’t show you the actual combat strength of any alliance. But if you look at numbers, there is no need to wash them first.

    June 13, 2019 at 12:05 pm
    • Moomin Amatin Punky260

      Ah excellent, you are stepping up to give us the real numbers then. I look forward to your analysis.

      I should also note that at no point did I say that The Imperium do not outnumber PanFam. I was merely pointing out that it was not to the degree suggested by some.

      Also you may remember from The Casino War where the MBC claimed that goons did not defend anything at all. All the time the goons were top of the alliance zkill list. Yet this time PanFam entities are not. As a goon yourself surely you remember the events of The Casino War?

      June 13, 2019 at 1:32 pm
      • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

        Moomin why do you always talk like some cult underling trying to ensure people follow the narrative…like he’s just being a reasonable dude and saying things any reasonable person would agree with.

        June 13, 2019 at 3:20 pm
        • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

          Dearest Punky260 advised that the numbers are public and can easily be processed. With this being the case I only advised that I am looking forward to their report on the true numbers. Hardly sounds cult like now does it?

          June 13, 2019 at 4:01 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Sounding a little culty and coercive. It’s obvious af WERMT, BOT and over half the other people you had listed are not combat numbers or even involved on any meaningful military capacity.

            June 13, 2019 at 4:03 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            And of course all the “krabs” that you and your pals are busy hunting in Delve are?

            Anyhoo Punky260 will come up with the goods I am sure. So let’s wait for them.

            June 13, 2019 at 4:10 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            I don’t know what this and that krab does. We’re just saying the obvious. WERMT and BOT and hell groups like skillurself are not relevant on a military level either because they aren’t combat characters or are simply elsewhere. You’re trying to inflate numbers for propaganda reasons.

            Why not criticize NCPL for lacking any kind of strategy to deal with this? I mean “what have they done the past 3 years that have put them in such a weak situation? Clearly poor management.”

            There I even started you off with a premise. Go write something decent.

            June 13, 2019 at 4:15 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Given that 80-90% of goons are not even deployed I would say that you are trying to inflate the numbers. Where is a single recent critical article you have written with regard to a lack of defence from PanFam? You had plenty to say during The Casino War.

            Also if you want a story then I suggest you look at the rental income for all those systems. The multiply that by the months and years they have operated for. Then ask yourself, given that PanFam are a PvP group, why do they have so few titans and supers? Surely enough ISK was generated from the rental schemes to cover such a fleet many times over?

            But alas, you will likely just continue to comment here in your standard fashion.

            June 13, 2019 at 4:28 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Your glorious leader called for the mass deployment and glassing of Tribute…and yet 90 percent ignore him? Ouch.

            “Why haven’t you written about X.” I’m not going to cover absolutely everything. Not an argument.

            PanFam has “So few titans?” Your intel’s pretty bad if you think that. But again I’m not sure what your point is here. Alliances make money? Or what?

            June 13, 2019 at 4:32 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Hardly a need for anyone to deploy given that PanFam leadership is busy unanchoring everything and staying docked up.

            You only cover the stories you are told to cover. For instance there was not one peep from you with regard to the dirty casino money and bans. Weird that.

            Please make up your mind. Either PanFam have the combat strength or they do not. According to PanFam leadership this is not a fight they want to take. Odd that. I mean a bunch of dirty low skilled krabs vs the PvP capable PanFam. Do make up your mind dear.

            June 13, 2019 at 5:49 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            >Implying PanFam leadership does unanchoring. Lmao you’re giving them too much credit.

            I only cover stories I am told to cover…lol. Imagine thinking anyone tells me what to do. “Dirty” casino money has been addressed by me before multiple times. Maybe you should read.

            Make up my mind about what? PanFam has piles of supers. That’s not a secret. You’re incoherent.

            June 13, 2019 at 5:52 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            The you keep writing about me of your own free will? Should I blush? – lol

            June 13, 2019 at 6:07 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Yeah I mean you’re kind of a goofball and you are the main mouth piece of the Goon propaganda machine so I critique it. You think me and Vince and Lady Scarlet sit with Elise in some smokey room… “okay fellas this Moomin guy’s makin us look bad with his amazing journalism. How do we take em down? Seraph…is 20 billion enough?”

            June 13, 2019 at 8:07 pm
          • Punky260 Moomin Amatin

            Given that 80-90% of goons are not even deployed

            How do you get that number?

            June 14, 2019 at 7:29 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Punky260

            You expect Moomin to give a detailed answer? No that’s not how it works. The way it works is he expects others to run around documenting every tiny detail of their argument even if the claim is obvious, while he merely needs to declare things and they are so.

            June 14, 2019 at 4:24 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Punky260

            Well as you have already mentioned the information is available for all to see. Luckily it is also super easy to use.

            First you need to create a method to poll CCP ESI for each of the killmails generated. You then need to store those killmails in a database. Care needs to be taken with the code to ensure that a response is received from the ESI as well as ensuring duplicate calls are not made. A few other calls are needed to populate things like corp and alliance IDs else the killmails just read like rubbish. After that it is a simple case of simply summing up the active characters for each of the groups you listed. The SQL for that is pretty trivial as I am sure you can imagine.

            Being the kind and helpful person I am I even wrote a guide some time ago for the Goon forums about how to access the ESI using JavaScript. Postgres is my database of choice.

            Of course there is a margin of error as not all roles are combat ones. Therefore using the range that I did I felt it was generous enough to avoid criticism.

            I would give you all of my source code and database set. But it seems that you do not trust me very much. With that being the case I suggest you create your own data so that you can see for yourself exactly what is what.

            June 15, 2019 at 7:24 am
          • Punky260 Moomin Amatin

            MembercountRenting-Alliances Membercount

            The Imperium

            483855445CONDIGoonswarm Federation
            33719
            TNTTactical Narcotics Team
            3525
            BASTNThe Bastion
            2984
            LAWNGett Off My Lawn
            1418
            INIT.The Initiative.
            5167
            IMInitiative Mercenaries
            1417
            Alt/Holding

            IMGAYI too am gay
            94
            SV.Space Violence.
            57
            WI.Wildly Inappropriate.
            4
            Renting

            PBLRDGreater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere

            1168-IA-Initiative Associates

            4277

            PanFam

            2649210602-10.0Pandemic Legion
            2323
            NC.Northern Coalition
            3835
            REKTDPandemic Horde
            17567
            Allied

            SLYCESolyaris Chtonium
            1614
            TRITriumvirate.
            466
            Alt/Holding

            MEANThe Skeleton Crew
            590
            MOGULMogul Financial
            97
            Renting

            WERMTRate My Ticks

            4072BOTBrothers of Tangra

            5287BNSTKBeanstalk Inc.

            1243

            Some small Alt and/or Holding alliances may miss there, but I doubt they add relevant numbers. If I miss anyone, please correct me.
            Btw those are the numbers I already posted in the first article comment section. I don’t know why you keep asking for them.

            June 13, 2019 at 4:44 pm
          • Punky260 Moomin Amatin

            There you go: https://imgur.com/gcyS4UV
            Those are pretty much the numbers I posted in the first article comment section, dunno why you kept asking for them…

            June 13, 2019 at 4:48 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Punky260

            Very amusing numbers they are too. Even more so in that they are not even 2:1 as I have been saying all along, no matter how much you try to twist them.

            June 13, 2019 at 5:35 pm
          • Punky260 Moomin Amatin

            Who is talking about twisting numbers? I never said anything that isn’t supported by those numbers. I said the Imperium outnumbers Panfam. Those numbers show exactly that.

            And what is amusing about them? Do you think any organisation is missing or should be erased? Then share your knowledge and backup your claims please.

            June 13, 2019 at 5:41 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Punky260

            PanFam claim to be a PvP organisation in the main. Membership to PL and NC for years was restricted to capital pilots with a certain amount of PvP skill points. PH describe themselves as a newbie focused PvP group. Are these fair statements to make?

            Goons, however, have all their characters under one single roof. Mining, ratting, production, all of it. Would you say this is correct?

            In my mentioning of the numbers it was to address the nonsense about PanFam being vastly outnumbered. They are not. Even your own figures show that.

            I mentioned Squizz as he would be able to determine who are combatants on each side. You then go on about how easy this data is to get. You then rely on numbers pulled from Dotlan in order to support your theory.

            Meanwhile PanFam supporters are going on about how many supers PanFam has.

            June 13, 2019 at 6:06 pm
          • Punky260 Moomin Amatin

            So 2:1 is not outnumbered in your eyes?
            And yes, there are a lot of difference in the style and organisation of those coalitions. It doesn’t change the number relations between the groups.

            Also, as I mentioned, you can access the same data that Squizz has…

            June 13, 2019 at 8:16 pm
    • Garreth Vlox Punky260

      killboards don;t shown pulled rigs…

      June 14, 2019 at 6:03 am
  • Mick

    Where does all the money go? And what does RMT stand for? I’ve never been able to figure it out

    June 14, 2019 at 6:53 am
  • Alan Salinas

    The Rental Wars? I believe that from a third party viewpoint you could think this is a war for renters, it happens we just opened new rental grounds in Period Basis and we choose to glass the best known rental alliance, where will these renters go next you think?

    June 14, 2019 at 12:56 pm
    • Moomin Amatin Alan Salinas

      You may be onto something there. I also hear that the Goon rental scheme is extremely affordable and so good that PanFam intend to emulate it in the future (once they can).

      June 15, 2019 at 7:47 am
  • Reality Check

    I got it.
    Frying Pan
    Operation Frying Pan
    Frying Pan War
    It’s simple and wonderful.

    June 14, 2019 at 3:10 pm
  • Manek Dubash

    The War of Glass

    June 15, 2019 at 6:50 pm