The Ins and Outs of Propaganda

JMoravia 2019-06-16

Art by Major Sniper.

I’ve played many different sports throughout my life, but the first was baseball. I played in my hometown’s Little League for five seasons and also watched professional games, and in the course of following pro baseball, I acquired an overriding hatred for the New York Yankees, the winningest team in the history of the league. I hated them not for any kind of logical reason, but just because they won a lot. If you’d pushed me for a deeper reason, there’s a very good chance that the reason I gave would have made no sense, because the belief itself wasn’t rational. It was emotional.

As much as we might wish differently, humans are fundamentally irrational creatures. We form beliefs based on feelings, not on facts, and then we go desperately searching for reasons and facts which will justify the beliefs we’ve already decided to hold. Even education and intelligence are no insurance against this irrationality. In his book “Why People Believe Weird Things,” author Michael Shermer says that even smart and well-educated people believe total nonsense – and in some cases are more likely to believe nonsense than less-educated people are – “because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons.”

This tendency toward feelings, this willingness to form emotional beliefs and try to justify them afterward with reason, is central to the role of propaganda in EVE Online. In this examination of propaganda, we’ll be looking at four major aspects. The first is the way people form beliefs. The second is the two targets of propaganda. The third is the three types of propaganda, and the fourth is the three hallmarks of good propaganda.

How People Form Beliefs

You may find it profoundly concerning that humans form their beliefs irrationally. You may also be tempted to protest that other people might do this, but that you personally certainly don’t. (Don’t do this – you’ll just prove Michael Shermer right.) But Shermer, in his book The Believing Brain, is quite explicit: “We form our beliefs for a variety of subjective, personal, emotional, and psychological reasons… beliefs come first, explanations for beliefs follow.”  A common axiom of social psychology is “people are rationalizing, not rational.”

It’s easy to understand why the brain does this. We live in an ever-more-complicated world, much of which we don’t understand. We simply don’t have time to research the facts about every technological development, every moral issue, every geopolitical quandary before making decisions – but yet we live in a world where we are expected to have a stance on many of these things. There is too much to know, and not enough time. Making snap decisions based on intuition is our brain’s way of taking a shortcut to the finish line. Many times these snap decisions are correct. Sometimes they are not.

People are split on whether this irrationality is a feature or a bug in our brain’s cognitive programming. Some, like Shermer, believe that irrationality is a bug which prevents us from living a life of pure reason. Others believe that irrationality is a feature, and point to the ways in which we use emotion to encourage social norms and mores. After all, a parent’s love for a child is emotional, not strictly rational, but without that attachment, society would collapse.

As this relates to EVE, it’s important to understand that our beliefs about the game – specifically, our attitudes toward certain players and in-game organizations – are most likely emotional, not rational. These beliefs are informed by our personal biases and past experiences. Because we have formed beliefs for emotional reasons and are in need of “facts” to justify those beliefs to ourselves and others, we are the perfect target for propaganda – a specific form of communication which is designed to either encourage sympathy toward one group or to encourage antipathy toward another group.

Whether you’re sympathetic to, let’s say, Bombers Bar, depends largely on whether you’re a member of the group or whether you belong to one of the organizations (most frequently Goonswarm and Test Alliance Please Ignore [TEST]) that they target. (If you’re not a member of any of those groups, your attitude toward Bombers Bar depends on your attitude toward the people they target and whether you have sympathy for those people or for the people who attack them.) If you belong to Pandemic Legion (PL), you probably have an emotional attachment to PL and will find those emotions aroused if someone speaks negatively about them. For my part, I have an emotional reaction to PL because I lived in Providence in January of 2017 when PL and friends invaded. I experienced the loss of my space-home and the stress of having to move my stuff to the other end of the galaxy when my corporation relocated. Because of that, I take special delight in stories of PL’s misfortune.

All of the examples I just gave are attachments formed on the basis of emotion, not reason – and that’s not a bad thing. We don’t sit down and crunch statistics before deciding which in-game organizations to like or dislike. We filter things through our personal experiences and our personal biases. This is inevitable. There are over 850,000 corporations and over 9,000 alliances in the game. We literally do not have time to acquire facts about all of them, or even a meaningful fraction of them, in order to make rational decisions. So our brains take that shortcut we talked about earlier, and presto, we have emotional beliefs in search of justification. In fact, even having beliefs about EVE at all indicates a degree of irrationality; wouldn’t a perfectly rational person choose to do something else with his or her time, something that offers a tangible reward for the time invested, such as running a real-life business instead of a space alliance or learning a foreign language instead of mastering EVE slang and acronyms? Because we’ve committed to playing the game, we’ve already made the cognitive investment that gets a foot in the door for EVE’s propagandists.

Propaganda is the perfect tool for this situation. It’s an appeal to emotion that helps people feel justified in whatever it is they already believed.

Two Targets of Propaganda

We defined propaganda earlier as a specific form of communication which is designed to either encourage sympathy toward one group or to encourage antipathy toward another group. It can take various forms, which will be discussed in more detail below, but most often shows up in a visual medium (memes, comics, edited images) or in the form of a short phrase which can be easily repeated (something like “NCdock” or “Goons are botters,” both of which will be addressed later).

The two targets of propaganda are given in the definition: it can either be aimed at “ourselves” or at “the other.” The first type is when one group says positive things about itself, with the goal of either encouraging its own members or eliciting sympathy or support from people who are not members of the organization. The Glassing of Tribute is a great example of this. It sends a clear and simple message, to Imperium members and to neutral observers, that the Imperium is going to be successful in their current offensive in Tribute.

The second type, propaganda about “the other,” is aimed at a group other than one’s own and is intended to either demoralize members of that group or else stir up negative emotions about the group from unaffiliated outside observers. A recent humorous example is Dude, Where’s My Invasion? I wouldn’t say that this image was designed to “stir up negative emotions” about CCP as such, but it was definitely intended to tap in to a widespread public feeling about CCP and its inability to manage large in-game events (a feeling which only became more pronounced after the controversial decision earlier this year to cancel the Alliance Tournament).

As you encounter propaganda, whether on Reddit or the EVE forums or your alliance’s own website, ask yourself who it’s aimed at and what claims it’s making about “ourselves” or about “the other.”

Three Types of Propaganda

There are a few different types of propaganda, grouped by the looseness or tightness of their connection to reality.

The first is to make observations that are simply true. “But wait,” you might say, “if you say true things, isn’t that just called news? How can it be propaganda if there’s no falsehood in it?” The answer is that it depends largely on the motivations of the person who’s making the claim. Let’s take, by way of a recent example, this Reddit post, which sarcastically asks TEST Military Director Vily for an AAR of a battle which TEST and its coalition-mates lost heavily. Now, is there any falsehood or spin whatsoever in the post? Of course not. A battle really happened, and the battle report linked in the article is accurate, and there was no AAR posted from Vily or any other TEST representative. But the writer’s intention was not to transmit news; they weren’t providing context or information about a battle that would have been of interest to the community at large. Their intention was to make a statement about Vily and to give their readers a certain negative opinion about TEST’s military prowess. That’s an example of how even a true statement can be propaganda. One of the great misconceptions is that propaganda means something false. In fact, as we’ll learn shortly, in order for propaganda to work, it actually has to be true.

The second type of propaganda is unified messaging, which is best defined as an intentional oversimplification of complicated events in order for large numbers of people to have the same understanding of it. Consider this image:

Now, is “United We Will Win” an objectively true claim? Of course not. It’s wishful thinking. It’s certainly not a lie – it’s a lot easier to win united than it is to win divided – but it’s an intentional oversimplification of what it takes to win a war. However, if everyone in the alliance truly believed the message, their dedication to fleets would increase and they actually would be more likely to win. Another example of unified messaging is the name given to the 2016 war that saw Goonswarm displaced from its home in the north. Much of EVE, including CCP, refers to it as World War Bee, a bland name that conveys no useful information other than that Goonswarm was involved in some unspecified capacity. The Imperium prefers to call it the Casino War, which keeps front and center the true cause of the war: that it was bankrolled with illegal ISK from in-game casinos and real-money transactions. “The Casino War” clearly establishes the narrative that Goons were done dirty by various underhanded in-game entities and even by CCP, who did not punish those violations of their EULA until after the Casino War was already over.

When 2018 came around and the Imperium invaded the north, “revenge for the Casino War” was the unified message. Everyone in the Imperium, even those who had been away from the game for weeks or months and couldn’t figure out why we were allied with TEST, could understand “revenge for the Casino War.” That’s an example of unified messaging: there’s no falsehood or spin in it, but it’s simple enough for everyone to understand, even if that process of simplification has caused some nuance and detail to be lost in the mix.

The final type of propaganda is spin, which is giving a narrative that’s partially true but that leaves out certain details which don’t advance the narrative. Now, understand me clearly: there’s no inherent problem with leaving out certain parts of a story. In college I trained to be a history teacher, so I say with some authority that all history is a simplification. Every writer of history makes decisions about who she’s going to include in the retelling and who she’s going to leave out, what back story and context is important enough to include and what isn’t, what events are central to the narrative and which there simply isn’t time for. The amount of time that a historian has to retell an event is dictated by medium (are you writing a small pamphlet or an entire TV miniseries?) and by audience (you can’t write with the same detail for eight-year-olds that you can for people pursuing their doctorate degrees).

A proper historian will make all of those difficult decisions from the point of view of, “How do I convey this information as accurately as possible given the limitations of time, medium, and audience?” Spin makes the same decisions from the point of view of, “How do I make my people look as good as possible, and our enemies as bad as possible?” Northern Coalition dot (NCdot) has been referred to for years as NCdock, a riff on their real or imagined reluctance to undock and take any fight in which they’re not guaranteed victory. This is a good example of spin. Most alliances in the game have engaged in the same behavior at some point, so it’s not that anyone really has a problem with NCdot staying docked if outnumbered five-to-one. But at the same time, it’s possible to tell a story that depicts their choices in the worst possible light, and so that’s the story that NCdot’s enemies tell. Welcome to the magical world of propaganda in action. As with all the previous examples, the claim is rooted in truth, but with key details, nuance, and context left out in order to create the most uncharitable depiction possible of NCdot.

Those are the three fundamental types of propaganda: simple truth (though told in bad faith), unified messaging, and spin.

Hallmarks of Good Propaganda

At any given moment, there are twenty to thirty thousand people logged in across New Eden. They come from diverse cultures and ethnicities. They speak dozens if not hundreds of different languages. They have varying degrees of education. Crafting propaganda to appeal to such a diverse audience is not easy. In my estimation, good propaganda has three fundamental qualities:

  • It must be rooted in truth. One of the most common narratives surrounding Goonswarm for the past few years is that it’s full of botters. Was there any truth to the claim? Probably at least a fragment; I believe if you took any sample of 31,000 players from EVE (the population of Goonswarm), you would find a number of botters among them. The fact that 31,000 Goons are typically found only in the region of Delve, whereas most other (much smaller) alliances have rental empires that span multiple regions, means that it may have been easier to locate botters within Delve due to the higher population density. However, when CCP Peligro posted a pie chart showing the greatest botter bans per alliance, the data didn’t back up the Goons-as-botters narrative. As such, that narrative has largely died off. Now that it is known to be false, it is useless as propaganda. Another good example of this is the “Band of Developers” scandal from the early days of EVE. Goons alleged that CCP developers favored the Band of Brothers (BoB) alliance, and eventually, proof came out that a developer had indeed gifted BoB some priceless Blueprint Originals. If the claim of favoritism had been baseless and false, it would have been useless as propaganda. The fact that it was true spurred most of New Eden – by some accounts, 90% of the entire player base of the game – to team up against BoB and ultimately destroy them.
  • It must be simple and easy to understand and to repeat. There is room for nuance in history, but not in propaganda. You don’t have to speak much English to get on board with “Revenge for the Casino War” or to comprehend the idea of “NCdock” or “Goons = botters.” “The Glassing of Tribute” is a four-word masterpiece of propaganda for precisely this reason. If you want an idea to become widely spread, you have to make sure that everyone can repeat it.
  • It must be opportunistic. If your opponent messes up, you have to seize on that and ram it into the ground while you have the chance. Analysts of the “NCdock” meme will note that Goonswarm engaged in the same behavior during the Casino War, refusing to undock while outnumbered. That is unquestionably true – but Goonswarm did it then while NCdot is doing it now. Remember, nuance does not have a role in propaganda, and so the meme proliferates unchecked. Another good example of this is the botter narrative discussed in a previous paragraph. Once the actual data on botting came out, enemies of the Imperium dropped that narrative, and will doubtless seize on a new one when the chance presents itself. If your opponent welps a fleet, propaganda that. If your opponent’s leader says something stupid or bigoted, propaganda that. If some news comes out that’s extremely unflattering to your opponent, propaganda that. Seize the moment and make the most of it.

Remember, all propaganda should be fundamentally an appeal to emotion, because emotion is how humans form the majority of their beliefs. There’s a place for reason, for facts and statistics (as we found when the botting data changed the narrative around Goonswarm), but therein lies the difficulty of making truly good propaganda: it must be rooted in truth while still being an appeal to emotion; it must convey truth while still being easy to understand and repeat; and it must be opportunistic without being something that is forgotten in a week or two.

In Conclusion

Given that people are primarily driven by emotion, having a strong propaganda arm is important for any in-game organization. Whether this is something formal, such as the Imperium’s Ministry of Truth, or whether it is something informal that consists of dedicated people posting well-thought-out propaganda on Reddit, managing the community’s perceptions of your organization is crucial. There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with appealing to emotion in order to shape people’s thoughts and perceptions of you; if we are most basically emotional creatures rather than rational ones, then you have to speak to us in the language we know best, which is feelings. You won’t always convince people – because, remember, those people have oftentimes already formed their beliefs, and are looking to justify what they already believe, not to be persuaded – but with dedicated effort over time, you and your organization can master the art of the meme.

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Comments

  • Seraph IX Basarab

    It’s not really an “either emotion or facts” choice that we have to make. You can do both and inform people properly. Decent article but I think you’ve let on more than you may have even realized.

    In any case for the past few years I’ve been having this question and no one has been able to answer it. Since you brought it up as rather prominent in your piece maybe you can help me out. How did MBC get bankrolled by “illegal money.” That is how did they get ISK purchased with real money? Did Casinos buy ISK with real money and give that ISK to MBC?… but weren’t casinos already disgustingly rich ISK wise to begin with?

    Thanks in advance.

    June 16, 2019 at 7:48 pm
    • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

      RMT, dirty casino money or anything else ultimately gets decided by CCP and players can call it pretty well much what they like.

      Lenny bankrolled The Casino War. Lenny was a key figure in the casino scene. You know that, I know that, all of Eve knows that. I mean there were enough articles, interviews and Reddit posts about it all. Lenny gets banned for RMT by CCP, his words not mine. A load of people ended up being neg-walleted. One of which was KillahBee who said, I seem to remember, that he lost about 1 trillion ISK in one form or another. Again all public knowledge and KillahBee was happy to talk about it at the time as were other people. The people neg-walleted all said it was due to transactions relating to Lenny.

      So there you have it. The answer that you seek that has been publicly available for years. Although let’s be honest here it is not an answer you are likely to be happy with.

      The real questions from The Casino War are:

      Why did CCP take a partisan stance in the name and their marketing efforts?
      Why were the initial bans of casino bankers by CCP security team overruled?
      Who overruled the bans?
      Why were the bans then re-instated?
      Who decided that the bans should be re-instated?

      But speaking of questions I have a couple for you. Why did you publish a hit piece on Matterall? Probably of more interest is, why has LadyScarlet let you publish a hit piece on Matterall? Oh and before you say “LadyScarlet has no influence on what I publish”, just know that the World and his dog knows that is utter nonsense.

      June 16, 2019 at 11:54 pm
      • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

        Not really an answer. I’m curious to know how RMT ISK, specifically ISK that got bought with real money, got into the hands of MBC members. Again casinos make ISK. It wouldn’t make sense that a casino that makes ISK…would buy ISK to give to MBC leaders. They’d just give them ISK from the piles they were making via gambling. Now were casino bankers selling their stash of ISK on the side? Probably. But that doesn’t necessarily mean MBC members bought the ISK. And if they did that would mean they weren’t hired. That’d be like someone paying their own employer to work at their company. Makes no sense.

        WWB had been going on essentially since December of 2015. Co2 defected late March. For over 3 months the Imperium had been eating shit on all fronts before NC, PL, TEST, GOTG, the “big null blocs” showed up to do anything. And by the time they got there Co2 defected which according to both leaders on the Imperium and MBC side I interviewed was the deciding factor of WWB.

        In essence those big bloc groups would have showed up anyway seeing how weak Goons were. (Which is why they showed up so late to begin with. They love fights they are sure they’ll win.) This narrative of “Casinos sent dirty ISK to PanFam and that’s why we lost WWB…errr “tHe cAsInO wAr” falls flat on it’s face for people who actually look at the facts. But like in JMoravia’s articles people like you rely on emotions and that’s what drives you.

        As for your questions.

        “Why did CCP take a partisan stance on the name and their marketing effort.”

        They probably just jumped on the first big name for the war so they could market it and get players. If you have some sp00py conspiracy theory of CCP out to get ya wrap yourself up in tinfoil and entertain us for a while.

        “Why were the initial bans of casino bankers by CCP security over ruled and who over ruled them. Why were teh bans re-instated. Who decided?”

        Obviously as we saw with Brisc, CCP’s not exactly all knowing when it comes to that stuff. It’s very possible people who weren’t RMTing got banned and people who had been RMTing got away with it too.

        Lastly I didn’t publish a “hit piece” on matterall. He made a dumb suggestion and I critiqued it. If I wanted to “hit” him I’d have done it in 2015 when he was dry humping Mitten’s leg. And I couldn’t give a fisherman’s fuck what opinion some illiterate windbag like lady scarlet has about literally anything. Just because you’re a servile mouth piece for your space guild doesn’t mean you have to project it onto others.

        June 17, 2019 at 12:20 am
        • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

          I know this is hard for you to perhaps be able to work out but, if you have an entity that is able to in essence print ISK could they possibly be tempted to sell it? You see for RMT to happen there need to be two parts. One a seller and the other a buyer. Could it be possible that the RMT side for which Lenny was banned was the selling side? As for the actions of CCP, well they can choose to say all the ISK was tainted if they so please. It is their game after all. At the end of the day the points I made stand with regard to what was publicly said and anyone can check them as they see fit.

          Not sure why you are revising details of The Casino War. SMA may have been “eating shit” but as soon as Theta went on holiday everything was soon stabilised again. It was only once certain people in SMA went “we do not want Theta here anymore and we do not need help” that it all went the way of the pear again. More so as the Lenny ISK was having an obvious effect. As for Co2, well Gigx had already decided to leave The Imperium in the summer of 2015 as he had a falling out with Sion. A monkey with a shitty stick could have negotiated that deal, and even then the monkey is optional. I know you want the Co2 back-stab to be your crowning glory, hence you writing a load of articles about it, but it really is nothing more than a footnote at best. The fact remains that without the funding from Lenny a lot of people would not have got involved in The Casino War.

          You say you do not care about the opinions of LadyScarlet and yet you avoid asking any tricky questions of PanFam. Any fool can look at the map and the movements over the years to know that PanFam is steeped heavily in renting. Yet where is all the wealth that has been generated? These types of questions you avoid as you get paid to push the PanFam narrative. Unless of course you are suggesting that your blog site does not write what it is told to write at times.

          June 17, 2019 at 12:41 am
          • Garreth Vlox Moomin Amatin

            Be seraph

            demand an answer to this question:
            “How did MBC get bankrolled by “illegal money.

            Get the answer to that question:
            “Lenny bankrolled The Casino War…Lenny gets banned for RMT by CCP, his words not mine.

            Decide it doesn’t count and ask the same question again…

            June 17, 2019 at 2:02 am
          • Moomin Amatin Garreth Vlox

            I hope you noted that he brought up Co2 again even though it in no way relates to this article or his original questions. 😉

            June 17, 2019 at 2:06 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Garreth Vlox

            Be Garreth

            unable to figure out casinos wouldn’t buy RMT money to give to MBC because they already made ISK from galbing

            June 17, 2019 at 2:12 am
          • Garreth Vlox Seraph IX Basarab

            Be seraph

            not be able to figure out the gambling was tip of the ice berg because the REAL MONEY TRADING was the illegal part of the whole situation….

            Also use a,b,c and 1,2,3 at the same time like a completely illiterate mongoloid.

            June 17, 2019 at 9:13 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Garreth Vlox

            Go to personal attacks because you’re Mad Online TM.

            So explain how the illegally bought ISK by Casinos got to MBC people. Why would Casinos buy ISK if they are making it on gambling?

            June 17, 2019 at 5:36 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            The public record of events has already been pointed out to you, more than once. There are a number of questions that remain about The Casino War bans that are unanswered. As you are determined to ignore all of that I can only suggest you ask CCP, as has already been mentioned before.

            But you are not happy with asking CCP for some reason and prefer to hang out on the website of those evil goonies instead. Weird behaviour to be quite honest. Are you ok?

            June 17, 2019 at 6:59 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Why don’t you just answer the question instead of hiding behind that word salad? Just man up and say you don’t know and you are just speculating.

            June 17, 2019 at 7:52 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            I have told you what I know and also told you who to go to speak to for the answers you say you want. But will you go there and ask? Nope, seems not. Instead you are still here at INN. One has to wonder why you spend so much time here.

            Keep posting dear as this is a wonderful record of who you are.

            June 17, 2019 at 8:42 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            “I have told you what I know.”

            So nothing. You know nothing.

            June 17, 2019 at 10:59 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Well I know that you are a self proclaimed ninja, diplomat, spy-master, WH expert, FC, elite PvPer, mind-reader who is never ever wrong. But that is mainly because you keep telling everyone that you are.

            Oh I also know that you are infatuated with me and have to keep trying to get my attention.

            June 18, 2019 at 2:32 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Never proclaimed myself as any of those other than having done some diplo stuff. Nice strawman though.

            June 18, 2019 at 2:58 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            You can believe that if you want to. Meanwhile the Internet says otherwise.

            June 18, 2019 at 3:28 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Can you show proof where I claimed at being a “ninja” or “WH expert” or “elite PvPer” etc? Again the only thing I said I’ve done is diplo stuff.

            June 18, 2019 at 5:40 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Yes I can. Am I going to? No. Anyone can find all the grand claims you have made in the past easily. Although I feel pity for anyone having to trawl through all the drivel you have spouted over the years.

            Keep posting dear as it serves you so well.

            June 18, 2019 at 6:49 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            You can’t because you’re a liar.

            June 18, 2019 at 7:20 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Why would I need to lie about something that is so easy to see for all and sundry?

            You are as keen to self-promote as Matterall is. The difference between you two though is that Matterall actually has some results to show. Meanwhile you bounce from corp to corp while achieving nothing of your own.

            June 18, 2019 at 8:09 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            The provide proof if it’s so easy.

            June 18, 2019 at 9:00 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Have you become so upset you are no longer able to form coherent sentences?

            June 18, 2019 at 9:25 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Then*

            woah you got me

            June 18, 2019 at 10:44 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Well if I had guessed you would have made it into some lie or a racist or homophobic attack. You have a track record of such things.

            You have already called me a liar and yet ask me to the offer you proof. Does this not seem a little weird to you?

            Anyone who should be foolish enough to still be hanging in reading these comments can work out who you are all too easily. It is not like you are going to admit error. So let them look for themselves if they want to.

            June 18, 2019 at 11:39 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            I lied about this?

            Moomin Amatin03/30/2017
            I will be happy to answer that question once you admit that you would like a nice black cock or two up your arse

            Are these not your words Moomin? See I can actually provide proof of my claims unlike you.

            June 18, 2019 at 11:43 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            And that is the basis of your proof of me being a racist homophobe? You know the claim you make everywhere you can. And what about where you make further claims about my mental health?

            There is a reason why your reputation is so bad. Do remember that you only get one reputation. It may be time for you to re-roll. Perhaps you will take on the name “Seraph X Basarab”.

            June 19, 2019 at 12:23 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            lol absolute boomer tier.

            Listen I don’t even care about what you said. I just think it’s funny how hard you play mental gymnastics around it denying what you said.

            June 19, 2019 at 1:52 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            You say you do not care and yet repeat the falsehoods at every opportunity. Especially when your arguments have been shown to be weak. Would a person who does not care about me write so many articles all about me? You really should start calling your blog “Moomin News 24”.

            This was a piece that was written by a chap who had some thoughts about propaganda. But almost all of your comments have been about you or your weird view on things. Your reputation is trash for a reason.

            June 19, 2019 at 2:14 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            “y-your reput-t-t-t-tation is b-bad…!”

            I mean that I don’t care in the sense it doesn’t offend me. You running around trying to deny you said such a thing is what’s funny to me. You thinking I care about what other people think of me and my “reputation” is further funny. This is entertaining to me.

            And you brought this stuff up when you couldn’t answer the questions. You think I care how much you whine in your discord channel about this. “haha seraf sure looks bad guys haha”

            >implying this matters

            June 19, 2019 at 2:39 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Just keep posting dear. Never not post.

            June 19, 2019 at 2:47 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            The posting will continue until morale improves.

            June 19, 2019 at 2:57 am
          • Vermicious Knid Seraph IX Basarab

            Wasn’t it something like…starting with an affiliate plex sale link, and offer in-game isk for using it, so you convert your stack of in-game isk into money by offering direct in game isk incentives, effectively enabling real money transfer out of the game. And abusing said links to convert money back into larger amounts of isk (rewards for using the link would be a plex plus maybe 1/20th of what a plex would sell for, so as long as the affiliate link gave more than a 5% reward then you profited. Either real money or isk-wise.
            CCP issued bans and public warnings and said knock it off, so the next tier of sovereign citizen like legal genii decide that offering tokens to casinos that will give a guaranteed payoff is a completely different thing.
            CCP eventually disagreed.

            There you go, is that answer enough?

            June 17, 2019 at 9:23 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Vermicious Knid

            I’m not asking how some people in casinos did RMT. I have no doubt that happened. But the claim that MBC was funded by specifically “RMTed ISK” is the issue in question.

            June 17, 2019 at 10:59 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Ask CCP then if it worries you that much.

            I will continue to refer to the ISK supplied to the MBC as “dirty casino money”, because that is what it was.

            June 18, 2019 at 2:33 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            They’re not going to discuss the specifics with people not involved. You’re at least smart enough to know that. And yes you have a narrative to uphold so you name it as you like. People using reason rather than feelings will know the difference.

            June 18, 2019 at 3:00 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Then why are you making so many comments asking for answers when by your own words only CCP knows the answer? It almost seems like you are being emotional and trying to support your own personal narrative.

            June 18, 2019 at 3:33 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            1. Of course they may be willing to sell it. I even said as much. But you are *again* missing the point. If Casinos were making ISK through gambling, which at the time was legal, why would they buy more ISK with irl money to give to MBC? They clearly had enough. Remember the question is how actual RMT money went from casinos to MBC. One continuous thing. Because after all the claim is that “RMT money made MBC attack Imperium.”

            2. I’m not revising details. SMA was eating shit, EXE was eating shit, Lawn, Bastion. Even Goons in regards to Lowsec Voltron and the Viceroy War (foreplay to WWB.) The plan Co2 had in mind was waiting for Goons to fall apart and reform a mini-coalition out of Lawn, Bastion and Co2. That Gigx had some vague idea of “screw Sion”…sure. But not exactly the smoking gun here. Regarding monkeys negotiating things I think you have me confused with Aryth and Judge. You can call it a “footnote” but that’s not what leadership people from both Imperium and MBC thought of it. And the only people that really needed sweet talked and paid into attacking Goons funny enough was my alliance at the time TISHU. Everyone else that worked even early on had previous motivations.

            3. Avoid asking tricky questions?

            https://twitter.com/SeraphIXBasarab/status/1140038473174441989

            Next?

            Of course Panfam is heavy in renting. Welcome to no shit Sherlock circa 2014 when Goons lost the south. Where is that wealth? Probably in NCPL’s coffers. Where is the ISK Imperium makes? Same place. What exactly are you insinuating?

            June 17, 2019 at 2:11 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            1. CCP define what is what and how it relates to everything in-game. If they banned Lenny for RMT then they banned Lenny for RMT. CCP then acted as they saw fit with regard to any ISK owned or passing through Lenny or any of his accounts. Did Lenny spend trillions on The Casino War? Why yes he did and everyone accepts that as a fact.

            2. Again trying to support your view on things. You were not a goon during The Casino War and yet you claim to be able to speak for all goons in relation to it. A weird position to take at best.

            3. Not sure why linking one single statement gives you any credibility to be quite honest. Your history is littered with petulant and chirlish acts. You probably got your feelings hurt by PanFam leadership not giving you the respect you think you deserve. Would not be the first time you have thrown your toys out of the pram.

            Then you finish of with “Probably in NCPL’s coffers”. Then try to throw suspicion on The Imperium yet again. Well this is an easy one to refute. The Imperium ISK is currently sitting on the throat of PanFam while PanFam hide away for reasons that are not completely clear. The one thing that seems relatively evident that despite years of collecting the rent and passive income streams PanFam members do not have the ISK in the form of Supers and Titans. If they did the incursion by The Imperium could easily be thwarted by so called PvP centric groups. Easy to figure out really.

            June 17, 2019 at 3:05 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            1. Moomin how did Lenny’s RMT isk get to MBC? Did he buy ISK with money and then give the ISK to MBC? How did it happen?

            2. I don’t need to be in Goons to realize the reality that Goons got wrecked vs Lowsec Voltron.

            3. Simply showing you that I’ve criticized PanFam numerous times before and gave but one example. But again for a zealot like you unless I’m chuggin Mitten’s cream under his desk like you are, I’ll always be some kind of Panfam loyalist. And since you opened up about “petulant chirlish acts” does that count you making racist homophobic slurs at me and then crying to Curt about it?

            https://pastebin.com/q8q4r2vu

            I’m throwing suspicion at Goons? No more than what you are to NCPL. “Oooo look at NCPL how they rent stuff out. Wonder where the money goes hmm hmm hmm?” Literally all you do. Well here’s one for you. Goons held the entire north for half a decade including the glory years of technetium moons. Why weren’t they able to fight for their space with all that money? Where did the money go? If you want to use vague accusatory insinuations don’t whine when others do the same back to you. Lastly the issue in the current war isn’t about money but manpower. PanFam slept strategically and never prepared for anything of the sort. Now they are reaping what they sow.

            June 17, 2019 at 3:59 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            1. Talk about goalposts moving. I have given you information that is publicly available. Yet you seem unhappy with the answer from the players I referenced. So what you seem to be after is something from CCP. Therefore I suggest you ask CCP about why they did what they did and the rationale behind it. While you are at it ask them about the questions I had with regard to the casino related bans. I look forward to your answer.

            2. I suppose the other 70 thousand characters or so had no bearing on The Casino War then? Next you will be trying to convince people that it was the efforts of a 100 characters that defeated The Imperium during The Casino War.

            3. You have not always been critical. But I guess all the time they are paying you and giving you praise then you would be inclined to think better of them. But after having to deal with you for a bit I suspect that they tired of the pretence and were more dismissive of you. Well done for proving my point about your petulant and chirlish behaviour. There is probably only one person in the World who is persistent in trying to paint me as a racist homophobe and that is you. If only you knew the truth.

            The evidence of where any goon ISK went is plain for all to see. Trillions were spent during The Casino War. By all accounts a similar amount to what Lenny spent. The Imperium fought for about 6 months. Multiple fleets every day. SRP throughout that period as well. The building of Delve was all paid for as well. The infrastructure, generous reward systems for all manner of folk willing to do things for The Imperium. Even now we are handing out free skins to people. Titans, Supers, Dreads, FAXs aplenty. Best of all line member wallets are healthy and hangars full.

            So over to you. Where is all the PanFam money because it sure as hell is not undocking?

            June 17, 2019 at 5:01 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            1. No goal posts being moved. I’ve always asked how RMT isk from casinos got to MBC. Here let’s look at my own words from this very page alone.

            A) “How did MBC get bankrolled by “illegal money.” That is how did they get ISK purchased with real money? Did Casinos buy ISK with real money and give that ISK to MBC?… but weren’t casinos already disgustingly rich ISK wise to begin with?”

            B) “I’m curious to know how RMT ISK, specifically ISK that got bought with real money, got into the hands of MBC members. Again casinos make ISK. It wouldn’t make sense that a casino that makes ISK…would buy ISK to give to MBC leaders.”

            C) “But you are *again* missing the point. If Casinos were making ISK through gambling, which at the time was legal, why would they buy more ISK with irl money to give to MBC? They clearly had enough. Remember the question is how actual RMT money went from casinos to MBC.”

            D) “Moomin how did Lenny’s RMT isk get to MBC? Did he buy ISK with money and then give the ISK to MBC? How did it happen?”

            So again you either are about as literate as LS or you are being dishonest. My questioning has been consistent throughout this discussion and even prior to it. How did Illegal RMT ISK get from the Casinos to MBC members?

            2. Nobody said any of that. Nice try being dishonest. Nobody said no one else had bearing. Simply said Goons/pets got wrecked by Lowsec Voltron. You welp fed hard and ran back north after which WWB started more or less in December of 2015.

            3. Show me a single article where I praise NCPL. Show me when NCPL was giving me praise. And please stick to a narrative. Either NCPL pay me and praise me to write what they want or they hate me for being “petulant and chirlish.” Again ironic from a guy who told me to go take “two black cocks up the ass.”

            4. NCPL also spent ISK upgrading systems and stations and giving out supercaps and building up dread caches. Again I don’t know what you are trying to insinuate. Man up and speak into the mic princess.

            June 17, 2019 at 6:26 am
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            You have gone full meltdown again dear.

            I suggest you go and have a nice lie down or something.

            June 17, 2019 at 10:02 am
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            So once the facts actually come out and you are cornered in explaining yourself you cower in a corner “ur m-melting down!”

            Okay champ =/

            June 17, 2019 at 5:35 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            What facts? The facts you claim and cling to despite the actions of CCP and the parties involved saying something completely different?

            To be honest I am not sure what you are hoping to achieve here. Perhaps this is just you trying to be “edgy” or something. I guess it could just be wishing to have some sort of attention. But I would have to say that it does not reflect on you well. So go ahead and keep posting. You are further developing your reputation and contrary to what you may think, it is not a great one.

            June 17, 2019 at 7:11 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            The facts posted in the previous statement I made. Where I showed there was no goal post moving and repeated the question you again and again fail to answer.

            Who is being edgy? There’s nothing edgy going on here. Relax dude. Calm down.

            June 17, 2019 at 7:54 pm
          • Moomin Amatin Seraph IX Basarab

            Same pony, same trick.

            Have you ever admitted you are wrong?

            As for being “edgy”, well you are the one making accusations of racism and homophobia.

            Nice to see you still have your super power of being able to read my mental state remotely over the internet.

            June 17, 2019 at 8:39 pm
          • Seraph IX Basarab Moomin Amatin

            Moomin Amatin03/30/2017
            I will be happy to answer that question once you admit that you would like a nice black cock or two up your arse

            Your words not mine.

            June 17, 2019 at 8:51 pm
    • Seraph, I find your comments in INN way more intriguing to read than your blogs in EN24. You should consider posting more in INN, i would be interested in seeing your point of view in EVE politics here.

      I also hear you would get paid in ISK to post in INN .

      June 17, 2019 at 3:07 am
  • Yoshi Tadaruwa

    A well written article. During the reading of it, I kept on thinking of RL propaganda–1930s Germany, USSR, hell even the USA, especially with the current president. From a game point of view–MoT is the biggest I can think of. I do not do much on redit since it is more flaming (another type of propaganda) and a place to air out dirty laundry.

    June 18, 2019 at 2:49 pm
  • TheHairLine

    this could be a good book

    June 21, 2019 at 2:04 am