New Eden Trading Company

Rhivre 2016-11-28

We have previously written about the New Eden Trade Network when it was first announced back in October.  The project has now moved forward enough that C4w3 was able to make an announcement on Reddit on November 21 for the official opening of the Trade Network.

Overview

As part of the launch of the network, the Mercenary Coalition Keepstar in Basgerin was freeported (opened to the public), having been a private citadel since it launched in August. The Basgerin Citadel (Tortuga) forms the central hub in the network, with the other locations being Maila, Aunenen, Jayneleb and Straloin (these last two are still to be onlined at the time of writing).  The highway between the Keepstars is still under construction as well but is hoped to be completed shortly.  The old deprecated network fortizars will be taken down once the new chain of Fortizars is all set up, to avoid confusion for people using it to jump across space.

NETC Citadel Map

The groups involved are the same as in our original article:

  • Project Mayhem. <16-13>
  • Snuffed Out <BBC>.
  • WAFFLES. <N0MAD>
  • Shadow Cartel <SHDWC>
  • Darkness <DARK.>.
  • Circle-of-Two<CO2>
  • Northern Coalition.<NC.>
  • Pandemic Legion <-10.0>
  • Legion of xXDEATHXx <X.I.X>
  • Stainwagon <SW>
  • Triumvirate.<TRI.>
  • Chaos Theory <KOS>
  • Fidelas Constans <FCON>
  • The Initiative. <INIT.>
  • Mercenary Coalition <MC>

One of the concerns about the trade network is that it is a bit blue-donutey, and, as can be seen from the list, there are people on-board with the project who are currently at war with each other. The blue-donut-style agreement is meant to be only while setting up the network, but, whether, once it has been set up, any of these groups fight each other in the areas around the citadels will remain to be seen.

Profits

The profits from the network will be distributed as follows:

30% going to funding defense of the network (Paying the groups above, as well as local lowsec groups to either defend, or not attack)

25% goes to the regional managers (more on these later)

20% Oversight Funding to Chribba (with 50% of this going to various groups marked as good causes, so, Signal Cartel, Care for Kids etc)

15% Special projects (Titan Taxi project – more on that later in the article)

10% Logistics funding

Access

The citadels, and all future structures in the network will be freeported. The majority of the Keepstars in the network have been transferred into a corp held by one of Chribbas alts.  The Basgerin Keepstar remains in the control of MC, but, Chribba has full access to the Access Control Lists and an overview of the financials. This means that Chribba will be able to ensure that no one is permanently locked out of the network. The Maila Keepstar is also not controlled by Chribba, and remains in the hands of Care for Kids.

You (or your corp or alliance) can be temporarily locked out of the network.  If an entity attacks any citadel in the network, they will be locked out for 10 days. If they attack during the 10 days, the timer restarts. If it happens that a member of an alliance does something, and the alliance feels they have been unfairly locked out, they can contact the regional manager of the citadel (more on that later), or Chribba, to resolve the situation.

The Regional Managers also have access to the ACL, and this is where people have more of a concern about access being removed, as if Chribba is unavailable for any period of time, it allows for the possibility of access being removed by the Regional Manager, who are usually a part of one of the groups involved in the project, and may not be as neutral as Chribba.  Any revocation of access would be rectified by Chribba as soon as he was available again, but it has the potential for abuse, especially if wars and politics get heated.  It would be damaging to the reputation of the network if lockouts occurred, but, then again, that sort of action is just part of eve, and is a valid tactic in a war.  Logs are kept of ACL changes, so it would be visible who changed access, and presumably they would be removed from the network as soon as it was discovered, but, the damage would have been done by then.  There is no real way around this, short of only have Chribba on the ACLs, which would increase his workload to a point where it is unrealistic for him to be involved.

Trading

The Keepstars in the network are the primary focus of trading, with the interspersed Fortizars providing jumping points between them, so whilst the Fortizars will have market modules (perhaps a stocking opportunity for jump fuel materials), the majority of the trade will likely be through the Keepstars, as these are strategically placed to either be handy for null sec groups, or in the case of Basgerin, an almost equal number of jumps from anywhere in Eve.

At present, there is one major stumbling block to traders using this network, and that is that CCP has not yet added API for non-ranged orders from citadels.  What this means is that unless you are offshoring (placing buy orders with 1 jump range for example), orders do not show on any CREST pulls.  The newly introduced ESI API also does not show citadel buy or sell orders.

The lack of API has not been a hindrance for the Perimeter or other trade hub Fortizars, but, they have the benefit of being in well-traveled regions already populated by traders. Having alts in different regions to check the state of the market is of course, possible, but it adds a layer onto trading which is not usually present these days.

The main tool for traders on the network will be via Eve-Mogul.com.  As well as standard market trading, there is also a feature called “Requests”, which function somewhat like WTB contracts.

Mogul Requests

This works by the person who wants to place a request entering what it is they want delivered to the Keepstar (or Fortizar)

Request Form NETC

As you can see, there is a small note down the bottom of the image, that says “Any abuse of this system will be monitored and logged“.  What this means is that the regional managers of each area will be able to approve or deny requests if they feel they are troll requests. This is primarily to stop people putting up fake requests, for, say, 100 Officer modules, but, it is again something that is open to abuse.

So, you have decided to place your request, and it has been accepted by the regional manager as a legitimate request.  The request now shows up in public requests:

Public Requests NETC

This is the screen that a potential supplier to the Keepstar will check.  This does not correlate to a WTB contract in the issuing citadel, nor does it have a matching buy order on the market.

What this says is, someone has said they want 20k Hydrogen Fuel Blocks in one of the Fortizars in the network, with no guarantee of taking the order once it is delivered.  The other missing bit of crucial information is the price that the person is willing to pay.  The only price shown is the current Jita average price.

How it is meant to work is that anyone who sees the public request and wants to fill it will fly down to the citadel with the items, and list them on the open market at the price they feel is correct, then the requester can, if they want, buy the items directly from the market.  This can, of course, result in many people listing the item, and only one of them getting their order filled. It can also result in the requester deciding they do not want to take any of the items, so they are just left on the market.

One way to make this more appealing to suppliers would be to have the requester provide a price per unit that they are willing to pay, as, the Jita price is largely irrelevant, because it can be obtained easily through Eve-Mogul or any other 3rd party tool or Crest pull, and most traders have a Jita alt (or are based in Jita themselves).

As for the main trading tool, this is the main strength of the mogul trading suite, but, without the API functionality from CCP, it is as yet, of no use to the citadel traders.  It has applications outside of the citadels though, and I expect it will be used widely by region traders as well as station traders.

Expansion

The Waffles Keepstar in Kinakka will not, as rumored, be part of the network, but, it will be freeported, so, it will be accessible to anyone who wishes to use it.

With Engineering Complexes now released onto Tranquility, there will be at a minimum, large Engineering Complexes at each of the Keepstar locations, and Mercenary Coalition have already dropped a large EC in Basgerin, and aim to have an XL deployed in the system by Christmas, to form a “Walmart of Eve” in the system, so you can do your building, then hop over to the Keepstar to sell your items. The current large EC would be converted to a maxed research location, and there will also be T2 refineries for ore and ice, leading to around 12 structures total on the Tortuga Keepstar grid.

While MC will likely be the first to have their XL EC launched on the network, the other citadels have plans already underway for placing ECs in their areas.

In addition to Basgerin, MC have also placed a Fortizar on the highsec gate into Basgerin, from Pulin, so that people who do not want to make the jump into lowsec are able to use a freeported citadel nearby. This has the same 1% tax rates as all other citadels in the network

Titan Taxis

This was something that was mentioned as a future plan in the Reddit article, but without fleshing out the proposal.

The way it is envisioned to work is, titan pilots from any alliance would be paid to set up on the network, and then there would be a schedule for them to log in and offer Titan bridging services.

This would be managed through Eve-mogul.com, and basically, customers would purchase a ticket, and the titan pilot would verify that they have paid before bridging them.  There would also be cyno pilots who give their API, and this would be  used via the Fleet Boss locator API to track the cyno pilots location. If they are in one of the NETC citadels, or within tether range, then they would show as available for the customer.

Titan pilots would be paid for fuel, and per person who uses the bridge, but there are no fixed numbers for the pricing yet.

Costs and Concerns

For MC, the network is very much a reimagining of their long-held freeport dream, which dates way back into Eve history, and so they are as keen to see it come to fruition as the other entities who have invested large amounts of ISK, as well as months of time into putting this project together.  It has been assumed that LennyKravitz2 has been the sole patron of the project, but, there are number of investors who, having put in a lot of ISK for various aspects of the project, are equally invested in making sure the project holds together for as long as is possible in Eve.

The cost has far exceeded the 4T ISK invested by Lenny, as can be seen by a quick calculation of the cost of the BPOs and materials required for building and fitting 5 Keepstars, 20 Fortizars, as well as the costs of hiring people for defense as the network is put up, or paying them not to attack it.  The ongoing costs of the network are likely to be considerable as well, so, while the people invested would, of course, like to get some return on their investment, that is likely to be some way off in the future. The total costs so far are in the region of 6T.

The thing that seems to be binding the disparate groups and individuals involved together is being part of something that has the potential to change the trading system in low and nullsec, but, whether ideals are enough to hold people together over long periods of time is another matter.  Lenny has said that he would welcome explosions and content around the network, and, that is something that is sure to arise, as, one thing Eve history has shown us is that blue donuts do not hold together indefinitely.

Lenny originally had a dream of moving trade out of Jita, so that Jita only services highsec. This is somewhat unrealistic, as the most likely scenario, assuming the network takes off, is that nullsec alliances use the network as a dropping off point for their nullsec materials and goods, and then traders move the raw materials, officer modules etc to Jita for resale, and ship down goods from highsec into the network. From there the null alliances can move the items back to their own space.  This would also encourage activity in lowsec, which is an area of Eve that has been overlooked by CCP for a very long time, and anything to bring more activity, and active markets to lowsec is, in my opinion, a good thing.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe Eve needs more hubs. More market locations are good for everyone, from PvErs through PvPers to Industry and Trading guys. I also believe that the location of these hubs has been carefully selected to serve the various interested parties, and so, this gives the most potential for the Keepstars to function as trade hubs.  However, I do have concerns about the network.  I have covered the technical concerns already, and additionally, I have concerns about the level of intel that is available through the network.

Presently, most nullsec (and lowsec) alliances source their products (especially those they need in a hurry) in Jita, as can be seen by the buyouts of ships and fitting just prior to an engagement, or during a campaign by a group.  Jita has the advantage of anonymity through volume.  Sure, you might know that someone has just bought out all of the large artillery cannons, but, you do not know who it was.  Within the network, if someone buys out the same item, it gives more information about who they might be, as, due to the location of the individual Keepstars it is easier to narrow down the potential buyers.  Yes, of course, all alliances have spies in all the other alliances so know in advance of things that are happening, but, it makes it a lot easier if you can just keep an eye on a local Keepstar.

I think there are a lot of obstacles and roadbumps to overcome in the project, not least from trying to get the wide range of groups involved to work together, but, at the very least it will provide some new trading locations in lowsec, and some potential fights.

 

I want to thank LennyKravitz2, Seleene from MC, and Eve-Mogul for patiently answering my “one more quick thing” questions for this article.

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Comments

  • Gla Frite

    I still wonder why would anyone in High Sec consciously feed pvp alliances wallet ? For sure, we still need buyers for common ores, but nothing more.

    November 28, 2016 at 10:59 am
  • Rammel Kas

    I believe this system is very open to abuse.

    1. It will get used as a supers highway for the likes of NCPL to come farm your local lowsec and null alliances for “content” when they’ve finished picking over the carcass of Tribute. Be my guest and leave those things up. But don’t you dare cry about it when you’ve upwards of 20 titans parked on your undock all day. Because that will be your future if you allow them to stay up. Don’t believe me? Just look at what GiGX of CO2 did just last week. His supers abused the supposed neutral tether to stay in a fight. The trade network people did specifically allow this to happen. They are a tool of warfare for the few who belong to that clique. And they will use it to mess with your group out west, east or south as they see fit. I would war-deck and shoot these things before things up north are wrapped up. You have very little time left.

    2. There are still mechanics like the author points out (and a few others that we know other groups used recently) to circumvent safety mechanics of cynoing your jump freighter to a citadel tether. Did you know any kind of aggression timer or ship locking your freighter prevents you docking? Did you see any z kill mails recently where it was noted as having had mechanics abused? Anything involving ECM Burst modules fired nearby? Hmm? Unless you’re blue to that group, what makes you so certain they won’t just blap your ass on arrival? (Or in the case of TISHU just blap your blue ass anyway because they are bad at consequences?) Do you think that waiting for Cribba to be online again is going to stop them shooting your ship (and not the citadel)?

    So not only do you forgo your safety and anonymity of your own cyno that you set yourself so that you don’t bump you now got to pay these assholes for the privilege of using their things? My advice? BURN THESE THINGS TO THE GROUND NOW.

    November 28, 2016 at 12:15 pm
  • Caleb Ayrania

    There is a joke about interbus Titan skins, and teleport without error spells, in there somewhere..

    November 28, 2016 at 12:17 pm
  • Lrrp

    For some odd reason I don’t see Imperium on the list.

    November 28, 2016 at 2:11 pm
    • Gla Frite Lrrp

      They’re not supposed to need anyone for anything.

      November 29, 2016 at 3:39 am
    • Noctune Prime Lrrp

      TLDR; Imperium have no need for it.

      Longer answer:

      a# Imperium sees the danger in having a Neutral harbor near them. Its a enemy staging point

      b# Imperium have no need for it. the alliance deal with this and have done for very long.

      c# line memebers in Imperium has no need for it. they buy stuff in jita if they want it and ferry it out. If they need BS or other massive stuff they advert in forum and they are built locally.

      d# there is a another thing and thats refunding the one responsible for casino war Lenny K. That ain’t going to happen. you don’t give cash to your enemy. Same person who paied 2T to Test to disrupt the claiming of Delve.

      e# It would just make Burn jita so mutch more booring.. (from a personal note I want to burn it to the ground for a month or so).

      November 29, 2016 at 10:51 am
      • Gla Frite Noctune Prime

        There’s also a very obvious problem : since all this will be handled by external IT, it’ll become a RMT platform as soon as launched. This trade network is just the Casino scam with other means : ways to transfer ISKs between characters without having CCP able to check the books.

        November 29, 2016 at 5:34 pm
        • Noctune Prime Gla Frite

          Never even considered it as a RMT scheme ..

          If its run within the game, as a Alliance holding the assets and everything is open book API and all isk goes out ingame. it’s within CCP control.

          Moving ISK out of the game in to other shady sites then we are in the RMT market.

          November 30, 2016 at 2:38 pm
          • Gla Frite Noctune Prime

            Well, as written above ” titan pilots from any alliance would be paid to set up on the network, and then there would be a schedule for them to log in and offer Titan bridging services.

            This would be managed through Eve-mogul.com, and basically, customers would purchase a ticket,”

            Case closed ? (Eve-mogul is even sub-based)

            November 30, 2016 at 4:42 pm
          • Rhivre Gla Frite

            Titan pilots would be paid ingame, for purchases made ingame.

            November 30, 2016 at 6:11 pm
          • Gla Frite Rhivre

            – Titan pilots would be paid for services nobody can control
            – Customers will take tickets on external IT systems (like in casinos)

            Whether or not RMT is embedded by design in such a scheme, there will be some ISK selling in this scheme one day, like in the so-called Casino scheme nobody ever found legit customers.

            Case closed ?

            December 1, 2016 at 12:57 am
    • Rhivre Lrrp

      Lenny did originally want to put one in Aridia, but Mittens, not entirely surprisingly, said no.
      TEST are also not involved afaik

      November 29, 2016 at 12:55 pm
    • Lekly Lrrp

      It’s not odd at all. Imperium knows it has nothing to gain from this system.

      November 29, 2016 at 5:51 pm
  • Lekly

    I found this article very informative and I am interested to see what happens as the alliances that are working together to make this network end up fighting each other. I wonder if groups will end up using these Keepstars as staging points and how the network will respond to that.

    November 28, 2016 at 3:07 pm
    • Rhivre Lekly

      I think that will definitely happen. Even alliances not involved in the network can use it for staging, so, if you can safely jump your fleet to say, Aunenen or Basgerin, from there you can in relative safety cross New Eden.

      Aunenen is where CO2 jumped their supers to from M-O last week, so, they now have them stored safely there 🙂

      November 28, 2016 at 3:16 pm
  • Apostophe Noodle

    will there be BLOPS bridges provided as well?
    Servicing the whole sector of folks that might take day trips to low/null to ninja mine, hoover gas, run sigs, or even set up your own gate camp somewhere.

    How will the pilots be ‘hired’? Will there be a logistical corp created to join with corp hangar access? Or will pilots contract directly using their own BLOPS and an SRP? Is the plan individual bridges on demand (be expensive on fuel) or a set schedule like the local commuter rail service IRL?

    Will there be a conflict of interest if someone uses the bridging network not to move cargo but a gank fleet? Or someone at war with the wrong people?

    Overall I think it has a ton of potential though. CCP created a bunch of easy to get into CovOps ships perfect for day trips to low/null to ninja all the things. That would be my hope. Push more care bears into taking a risk, seeing more of New Eden, and yes, even experiencing the occasional ‘Emergent Gameplay’ of being blown to pieces by pirates.

    November 28, 2016 at 3:42 pm
    • My understanding is that the pilots will be contracting directly, and for individual bridges on demand.

      November 28, 2016 at 3:47 pm
  • Moomin Amatin

    This whole network feels like a desperate attempt to replace the lost income streams of the casinos. How long will it be before independent trading citadels get hit as was already alluded to by Lenny? Equally the list of supporting alliances looks quite interesting, and by interesting I mean bad. I feel comfortable in predicting that it is only a matter of time before this hits someone in a bad way. This will be in the form of market control, locked assets or killmails. This will be a story that will be interesting to follow and with the current investment made it will not go away any time soon.

    November 29, 2016 at 1:55 am
    • Gla Frite Moomin Amatin

      I still have to see any real casino customer. All this will juste be botisk laudering & RMT as usual. We already see Alphas with badly pimped ships everywhere around.

      November 29, 2016 at 3:41 am
  • JackieTreehorn

    If the purpose was to make Jita less vital, I suspect this project will have the exact opposite effect. Granted I don’t know the exact routes and layouts, but before perhaps Amarr or Dodixie or Rens was much closer so you went there instead- at least some of the time (I realize there’s oddball things or massive quantities that necessitate a trip to Jita). This sounds like anything and everything will be super-funneled to and from Jita making it more central and important than ever.

    Not that I think a big null sec trade route a bad thing; I think null sec trade hubs are pretty awesome. Especially freeports. For whatever reason the thought of building a big null sec trading post generally induces a big stiffy. Their usefulness is somewhat limited though when everyone is NBSI. It almost limits it into an internal alliance distribution system.

    Perhaps the most interesting thing to ponder is if this will lead to a reconsideration, at least for some parties, of NBSI as the standard policy. Even without a massive infrastructure like this the trade potential of NRDS can be seen quite clearly be taking a quick peek at the economic reports. After the 5 regions with a major trade hub (Jita, Amarr, Dodixie, Rens, and Hek), and the two others bordering Jita, the region with the next highest trade volume is Providence. Not only does Providence have more trade volume that any high sec region not containing one of the top 5 hubs or adjacent to Jita, but it has over twice the trade volume of the next highest null sec system (which is Vale of the Silent). It has over 4 times the trade volume of Delve, which leads or ranks high in many other null economic categories.

    To top it off, in October Providence had the second highest production of any null sec region- and coming in at 7th overall. It was also the 3rd highest mined null sec region.

    For anyone who thinks NRDS will make the game stale and lame Providence had more ISK destroyed than any other null sec region except Tribute last month (for obvious reasons- but even Tribute only had about 13% more destruction!) as well as 4th overall coming in behind The Forge and The Citadel.

    Hopefully that didn’t get too preachy; if you don’t like NRDS that’s totally fine. It won’t work if everyone does it anyway, so feel free to continue to hate it. But it’s an interesting (essential?) idea when it comes to successful and profitable null sec trading centers- or even just spicing up null in general. A few more NRDS zones in null would make it all the more interesting methinks- as well as offer up interesting trade opportunities. Especially in conjunction with a massive trade network like this. proposal.

    November 29, 2016 at 2:07 am