Horde Partisans’ Fireside: “Is the North Lost?”

Savvy Kneel 2018-09-09

In a fireside chat with Horde’s Partisans SIG this weekend, AlphastarPilot gave a grim update on the state of the war in the north from the perspective of those who live there. Partisans has been on the front lines of the war assisting their allies’ defense – a position Alphastar said the group was never intended to be in, preferring to fight a guerilla-style war on their own terms rather than on the front lines.

In what became a recurring theme, he lamented the fact that the North’s fractured alliance suffers from a “failure to coordinate at the highest levels.” Asked about the Imperium’s current offensive against CO2 space, he said that his group can’t defend their allies if they aren’t willing to defend themselves. He was equally critical of Horde’s other allies, noting that NCdot typically will only form for their own FCs rather than participating in coalition fleets, and noting that Pandemic Legion is “very strange” at the moment and nobody is quite sure what is going on.

When asked by his group members if there was anyone else to “batphone,” the response was one word: Horde. But the consensus was that it wouldn’t do much good. Like Partisans, the larger Horde alliance prefers not to defend allies who won’t form up in their own defense. In addition, he noted, Horde is most concerned at the moment with fortifying Geminate in case the war reaches that far.

Asked outright if the North is lost, Alphastar said he believed it was. “Goons have perfected that they can stay on this permanent deployment while still having fairly strong security of their krablands,” he noted. “Unless people on our end decide to start using their brains and try to tactically outsmart Goons instead of just doing the same old feeding Muninns under cyno jammers to them, I don’t think this is ever going to change.”

Despite the Imperium’s early struggle with the mechanics of cyno jammers, he noted, once they were accounted for in strategic planning, “Goons have proven it’s very easy to take down cyno jammers – it was just a good meme the first month of this campaign where they forgot what those were.”

“Do we have a counter to a 500-grid Titan fleet,” one questioner asked. “Yeah, don’t fight,” was the answer.

The general consensus was that the war will continue until the Imperium tires of fighting it. “They’re pretty unstoppable, I’m not going to lie. It very much makes me feel like the PIBC-Serenity thing could definitely happen.”

“Even when goons fear they might lose, they just have PGL bring a fleet of TEST or something up here.”

Some members questioned the feasibility of a counterattack against Delve, “We can,” said Alphastar, “but they have their entire shield supercap and titan fleet there, which is larger than horde’s entire titan and supercap fleet.”

While the consensus was that the Imperium sits in the driver’s seat, there was also the feeling that Goons lack the “stamina” for a prolonged war and will eventually disappear back into Delve for awhile.

Reddit thread related to the fireside prompted a spirited debate on that particular question, with representatives from both sides of the war speaking out about the motives for, and conduct of, the war’s main protagonists. Several themes emerged from the discussion.

One was that the Imperial Legacy has an innate advantage in that there are fewer groups to coordinate, giving their two main coalitions an advantage over the five-plus groups loosely allied in the north. The strength of that alliance was another key theme. The general consensus on Reddit was that PanFam made this war inevitable by attacking TEST, which turned to the Imperium as its only hope for survival, in turn giving the Imperium a strong enough ally that the two of them together have been able to steamroll the North up to this point. Part of that consensus was that TEST and Imperium forces reliably come to one another’s defense when needed, while some members of the Northern forces do not.

The tactical decision-making referenced by Alphastar emerged as another theme on Reddit. The feeling was that the Imperium is tactically superior to their foes, who tend to retry the same things that have failed in the past.

The final advantage is morale. Of course it is always more fun to be on a winning side, but one of the themes that came through on Reddit is that the very mentalities the North is counting on to eventually prompt the Goons to look elsewhere, are the same mentalities that make Goons, Goons. An alliance obsessively focused on infrastructure and economic development is not likely to become frustrated with the grind of constantly building up the resources to maintain supercapital superiority. Similarly, groups that focus on killboard statistics are likely to take a morale hit when the chips are down. As one Reddit commenter put it, “Attempting to batten down the hatches and hoping the two most autistic groups in the game get bored is certainly one way to try to win a war.”

In short, the conclusion on Reddit – both among the Imperial Legacy members who participated in the discussion, as well as some of their foes – was that this war plays to the particular strengths of TEST and the Imperium, and that they are not likely to slow down anytime soon.

Alphastar seemed to agree. “Pureblind and Fade are lost for sure,” he said. As to the future, “It depends on how long Goons want to keep doing this.”

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Comments

  • Rammel Kas

    In short: Until we want to.

    September 9, 2018 at 10:06 pm
  • Tomoko Tanue

    aye, the north is as good as gone. minus Geminate. definitely gonna be a reshuffling of powers after this. might end up being Horde as one of the super powers xD (ah….i can dream, though compared to the others in the north…it rings a bell of truth, i mean hordes kinda absorbing PL at this point. the child has become the master.)

    biggest question though, is can anyone stop the Imperium(they stronger now than in World War Bee). my money’s on a BoB style end. i mean….they so similar to how BOB was in the end, even got Fortress Delve. so seems the only way for them to fall is internally.

    September 10, 2018 at 3:11 am
    • The only thing about the Imperium that’s similar to BoB is it’s silhouette on the map. We’re cultural and organizational opposites.

      September 10, 2018 at 7:18 am
      • Tomoko Tanue Ganthrithor

        but the greatest weakness is the same as BoB. aka your so powerful that the biggest threat is internal rather than external

        September 10, 2018 at 12:45 pm
        • anaisanais501 Tomoko Tanue

          I wonder how many active Titan pilots there are in the North? I’m guessing quite a few. Probably more than Goons + TAPI combined. This is the nub of it really isn’t it. Too many egos, no unified command, etc. I would say the North deserves to fall.

          September 10, 2018 at 3:08 pm
          • Vertigoe anaisanais501

            if they had more active titan pilots than us then the x47 armor timer was the perfect time to show it and they had fewer. So no they don’t.

            September 11, 2018 at 4:42 am
          • Robbie_Gluon Vertigoe

            I think they do, just not so many that wanted to risk dying on the x47 hill.

            September 12, 2018 at 1:28 pm
          • Vertigoe Robbie_Gluon

            then the answer is they don’t. If you arent willing to risk it when it counts then you might as well not have it. If you are only going to use it to gank, when the big battle roles around you are pretty useless.

            September 12, 2018 at 2:33 pm
          • Robbie_Gluon Vertigoe

            Yes, that’s my point. There may well be enough “force” in the North to stand up to Goons, if only their organisation wasn’t so terrible.

            September 12, 2018 at 5:46 pm
        • Rammel Kas Tomoko Tanue

          What you’re suggesting so far seems to have no ground on any level but a similar use of the map, which is basically still dictated by the same set of regional gates, and now jump ranges. So appears to be coincidental.

          Please look at this again. I am sure the answers you find on an intellectual critical inquiry will blow your mind. It’s actually a very VERY deep rabbit hole.

          September 10, 2018 at 4:22 pm
  • Michele Manfredi

    i am happy… very happy for that ….goons war machine is epic… take back the north!

    September 10, 2018 at 10:43 am
    • Matt Critchley Michele Manfredi

      Might want to consider what happens to a game when one side cannot be beaten.

      September 10, 2018 at 5:07 pm
      • highonpop Matt Critchley

        goons can be beat. remember world war bee? The shoe is just on the other foot now and the coalition of alliances that took the North in WWB aren’t funded and organized like they used to be.

        September 10, 2018 at 8:30 pm
        • Alot highonpop

          World war bee was backed by a casino empire which was dismantled and banned as soon as the conflict they started was over.

          As long as the leadership structure of the goonswarm remains intact I don’t believe any group could rise with enough unity, funding and purpose to take down the goons at this point.

          September 11, 2018 at 9:23 am
          • Robbie_Gluon Alot

            Are you suggesting that the pressure on the North is such that at some point it’s going to break and a new more unified entity is going to emerge that would be better able to take Goons on?

            September 12, 2018 at 1:26 pm
          • The opposite. I don’t feel that any new force could rise to challenge the goons at this point unless the goons implode of their own accord.

            September 12, 2018 at 1:37 pm
        • Havish Montak highonpop

          Also remember that as soon as the casino coffers were gone, Goons started winning. Delve was taken and Lumpy bashed in. The Culture died due to attrition. CO2 was given Judgement.

          September 12, 2018 at 8:30 pm
  • Arcadia Kain

    Been awhile since I have played Eve, but I distinctly remember a conversation between myself and a few PanFam guys during a twitch stream of a TEST citidel being taken down. It went something Like this:
    “Just so I’m clear…its Test+Imperium vs the world now?”
    Pamfam “Yeah, we are gonna wipe them both out”
    Me “You don’t wanna do that, they are the only real competition you guys have”
    PamFam “Fuck TEST, Fuck Goons. We are wiping TEST out right now, what are goons gonna do about it?”
    Me “lol you guys are a cancer to New Eden, you are so dumb that you don’t even realize you are about to wake a sleeping beast. Do you know your history? Do you remember BoB?”
    PanFam “Goons aint gonna do shit about it”
    Me “I can’t wait to see my boys rain hell down on your heads. You guys are as good as done and you don’t even know it.”

    I suggested the Name Legacy Wars for this war, not just because of the Legacy Coalition, which, from where i’m sitting, this war started because PanFam wanted to utterly wipe them, but because the Legacy of New Eden, and many of it’s longstanding factions are at stake. This needed to happen for a long time. The bad guys (and thats exactly what PanFam are, the villans of New Eden) have his behind the mask of “the good guys” for too long. Time for the real good guys to dismantle them, and give the north back to the players, because, lets face it…we don’t conquer the weak and subjugate them like PamFam does. Our MO has always been fun fights with everyone, and bloody the noses of the bullies of New Eden whenever we need to.

    Looks like those bullies overstepped. Kinda sad I’m not there to be part of finally putting PanFam down.

    September 10, 2018 at 10:05 pm
    • This is pretty much on the nose: for decades now it’s been a running conflict between the descendants of the original “elite PvP, OG, played beta” crew and Goonswarm, who’ve historically given no fucks about green killboards or e-honour and just want to have fun with their friends and get spacerich. The names of the alliances and coalitions change, but most of the opposition has been “people who used to be in BoB” for a long time now. PL used to kind of be their own thing, but seem to be the new Mercenary Coalition– “Definitely not BoB (NCdot) pets.”

      At the end of the day, a room full of elitist fucks pointing fingers at one another and blaming each other for losing space battles is never going to triumph over a group of people who treat each other decently, look out for one another, and all want to enjoy getting rich together. I’m part of probably the most elitist, PvP-focused sig in the entire coalition and even we don’t get upset about losing space-fights– we’re just a bunch of pals who like to hang out and gatecamp. We try not to feed too hard, but at the end of the day we’re just in it to have fun together and laugh at all the dumb people we blow up. Goons don’t take the game too seriously: we’re not EVE players– we’re gamers and general nerds who– amongst other things– play EVE. We’ve been evicted from various regions enough times to know that it’s not our supercaps or the infrastructure of a particular region that’s most important: it’s your friends. You can turn anywhere into home as long as you keep your friends. Keep playing together, keep enjoying spaceships, keep helping each other out and keep trying to find new ways to be better at whatever it is you like to do. That’s all that matters in this game.

      September 19, 2018 at 5:10 am
  • Alot

    When the goons were kicked out of delve, the first major offensive I recall them making (in a publicised way) was to attack some folks after Test decided to attack the same folks from a different direction. Test said there was no collaboration and I believe goons said the same and that “this was the new way of doing things”. The effort ended a few days later when Test pulled out stating “It was weird “.

    I assume the goons and test are now officially friends with benefits?

    September 11, 2018 at 9:35 am
  • Yoshi Tadaruwa

    It does appear that the north is finally being broken apart. A lot thought that the DRF was the invisible player in the NE but they have melted away. One thing I would like to point out to both fans of Fam and Goons/Legacy, do not forget about Fraternity and its Winter Coalition. As more move from the Chinese server to here, they will be a power to be reckoned with. We will have a superpower in Goon/Legacy, but they may splinter. We still have Frat sitting on the sidelines of the Northern War between Fam and GL, but they are still involved with TEST as things remain volitile on their boarders. The North may be lost, but it is not going to be “One ring to rule them all…” as Frat and the Winter Coalition are still very much alive and will be kicking on if not down doors in the near future.

    The Stalemate of the North vs the South has finally been overcome but look to the East for the next big move. It may not be this winter, but I fear it will come within the next year.

    September 12, 2018 at 5:27 pm
  • concerned whiteman

    its not casino money that is the issue . ITS THERE TOTAL attitude of were elite pvp **** industry . This is what has cost them this war. Instead of trying to maintain the whole were nomadic pvp and we hate carebears sealed there fate. They should have used the supercap umbrella to promote rorqual and moon mining . The amount of craps they could get if they did that with premium space from tribute to tenal would have put them on par with the Goons. Instead the whole elite pvp attitude has seen many corps wither and die in NCDOT. HIFI a corp i use to belong to being one of them. Now they pay the reaper for there lack of understanding of the new meta. I ll give horde this if they can continue to increase there industry and upgrade there supercap umbrella by taking in NC/ PL Corps they could become the perfect counter to goons. They just have to adpot a Krap attitude to getting there line members rich enough where they can afford 3,4 pew supers and ratting ships such as carriers can be welped without issue

    September 17, 2018 at 5:41 pm