BRAVE’s Leak – What Does It Mean?


Art by Major Sniper

Leaked conversations from a BRAVE leadership channel reveal severe cracks within their command structure, doubts relating to their strategy, and concerns about the war. In what is probably the largest breach of operational security the war has seen, logs from the meeting were ‘paste binned’ and posted on reddit. The subject of the conversation revolved around BRAVE’s recent announcement to occupy systems within Querious.

The leak pits BRAVE’s military chief Shattered Armer against de-facto alliance leader Dunk Dinkle and logistics director nOrman. It is an alarming conversation for BRAVE members, and the PAPI Coalition, highlighting the difficulties facing the alliance – pressure from hostile groups in Catch, lack of funds to support a re-staging operation to Querious, and overall frustration with the war against the Imperium.

All About the Spin

The leak sits at the centre of two other BRAVE announcements. The first detailed their planned move to Querious, which coincides with TAPI’s occupation of Delve. The latter, named “BRAVE Damage Control,” sees Dunk Dinkle and his team attempt to justify the contents of the leak. A third, reiterated the key damage control points to members in later time zones.

In the leadership channel, Dinkle actively discusses how they are going to “spin” this announcement as it will clearly be unpopular with their line members. “I’ll do an impromptu alliance chat Wednesday morning (my time)” Dinkle says. “I’ll explain we have the opportunity to have more fun with people in Querious and that we are going to help with this part of the war. “kills to be had and ISK to be made”. The modified spin is SibSquad giving us a new place to hunt.”

Spin is of course commonplace within EVE Online and we should not be surprised that alliances have spin-strategy, but this leak raises questions about any further leadership announcements.

All About Supplies

Of course, every group in EVE Online will have disagreements within its command group, this is natural. However, it appears that decisions made by Shattered Armer had not been agreed to by Dinkle and present further problems for their logistical team to try to resolve.

Shattered Armer X:02 — Move ops will commence Friday and into the weekend.

Dunk Dinkle X:03 — What are you talking about? What move ops?

Shattered Armer X:03 — Into Querious, our new deplyoment staging.

Dunk Dinkle X:03 — We have to be on the same page here.

BRAVE have endured a war that was not of their choosing for around eight months. Initial successes, during the early parts of the war, saw them regularly contribute to fleets and obtain systems in Querious.

Yet, as the war raged on, their gains were lost, and since The Initiative’s move to Curse they have failed to absorb the extra pressure. Compounded with The Watchmen collapsing, an ever more aggressive Simple Farmers and DREADBOMB, their ability to finance the ongoing war is questionable.

Dunk Dinkle X.49 — Mainly, we don’t control the market in P-Z. We don’t have the ISK to buy the KS + other structures.

nOrman X:17 — just pointing out, once again, that we have no money to ‘get established’.

nOrman X:17 — its all going to SRP i mean, we’re draining our coffers.

Supporting an offensive war is an expensive business. All sides will struggle to manage increasing SRP. Then add scarcity changes implemented by CCP into the mix and costs becomes an issue. Many BRAVE members have cited the issues about “cloaky camping” by their enemies within Catch and Immensea, often accompanied by Black Ops strikes onto mining and ratting groups. In addition, with The Initiative now claiming sov in Catch, their reach stretches further into BRAVE territory. Recently a BRAVE Machariel group was destroyed upon leaving their home system of GE-.

All About the Culture

BRAVE is seen by many EVE players as a new-player gateway into null sec. They offer a comprehensive program for members in BRAVE Newbies, many channels devoted to development, standing fleets for protection, and free ships to help travel. Additionally, one of the main draws to BRAVE is the expensive relic sites within Sansha space, with exploration being a primary source of income for new players. Moving to Querious will deny them of as much as 75% of that exploration yield.

The leaked conversation also reveals a “Barnes & Elias” effect between Dunk Dinkle and Shattered Armer. The former attempting to save his alliance from the destruction of the war, and the latter jumping on the back of TEST’s movements and gunning for blood. BRAVE’s tag line has always been “Be Brave, Stay Classy,” yet throughout this war many opponents and allies have noticed BRAVE members spouting the worst vitriol in local chat and on reddit.

Sure, everyone has members who have unfunny thoughts they spew into local. But this has reached new levels and started to detract from the “stay classy” mantra that has made BRAVE one of the more liked alliances in null sec.

All About the Future

Dunk Dinkle now faces a number of challenges, both internal and external. He was quite right to state in the ‘Damage Control’ chat that they needed to be a member of a large coalition for their own survival, but with that coalition dragging them away from safety the future looks bleak.

Furthermore, internal arguments can always be overcome, but an organisation must emerge from them with a clear strategy that is supported by leadership, delivered in a coherent manner, and supported by their ability to enact it (logistics). With Catch on fire, Querious the new home of Siberian Squads in RUS tz, and the majority of BRAVE members having established production at home, the question remains – why would they leave Catch?

Dinkle and his team will have the more difficult job of keeping the culture ‘classy’. Their alliance depends on new players, and a toxic community will not support that model. The war has been tough on all involved, and although fights are fun, watching the home that you and others have built over the years burn to your old enemies is not. One thing can be certain, whether it is in Querious or Catch, there are tough times for BRAVE whilst they remain tied to the PAPI Coalition.

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  • William Doe

    Too early for me to predict how badly this’ll mess up BRAVE, but what do you know. “Cracks forming” right? So who’s next in on the Legacy chopping block ready to implode or switch sides?

    February 12, 2021 at 10:36 AM
    • Guilford Australis William Doe

      I think from a membership standpoint it won’t have a huge effect. Most line members (in any alliance) aren’t on Reddit, don’t read INN, and don’t watch The Meta Show or Talking in Stations. The damage is mainly to Brave’s credibility since they’ve always postured as the “classy” good guys who float above the scheming and machinations of nullsec… but now have had their leaders exposed admitting they know they are screwing over their beloved newbros and line members with poor decisions that damage those players and only benefit TEST.

      I think FEDUP might be next on the Legacy chopping block. They’ve already complained loudly about TEST failing to help them defend their structures in Immensea as promised despite TEST forming to defend its own structures back in the old country (naturally). FEDUP also used to be blue to The Imperium and must be sorely regretting their decision to reset us and shack up with Vily instead.

      February 12, 2021 at 3:47 PM
      • Alaric Faelen Guilford Australis

        As I said in another post here– as a line member nobody myself, nothing pisses me off more than being used so people at the top can profit. Finding out that my leadership was evac’ing their stuff but keeping me in the dark would see me pack my bags.

        This is a massive breach of trust between Brave leaders and their members. You see there is two groups in Brave, the few at the top conspiring in dark rooms to ensure they remain rich– and everyone else being used to make sure it happens. How many pings have Brave members answered that were merely covers for leadership to sneak their assets out? When the ping for evac fleets finally does go out- how long will it be since their leadership has already ensured their own wealth is safe? When the line member is told- ‘too bad, your stuff is lost because you didn’t get in the couple fleets we pinged’ but the leaderships’ stuff has been safe for weeks- why would anyone sit in tidi hell on behalf of those people again?

        February 12, 2021 at 5:34 PM
        • Guilford Australis Alaric Faelen

          I absolutely agree. If I was in the position of a Brave line member, I’d be out the door so fast it would crash the server. My point was just that it’s not implausible that a large number of line members won’t even know about this because they don’t follow Reddit and EVE news, and their Corp CEOs will almost certainly do some spinning of their own to keep people from looking too closely at what the alliance leaders actually admitted.

          February 12, 2021 at 6:03 PM
          • kwnyupstate . Guilford Australis

            Something like this will get around quick.

            February 12, 2021 at 11:45 PM
    • Alaric Faelen William Doe

      I’m angry on behalf of Brave line members. They might drink enough kool aid to not see the truth here, but it’s self-inflicted delusion. Their so called leadership is flat out lying to their members, all the while secretly making sure their assets are safe. Spin THAT all you want, doesn’t change the ugly truth.
      When we had to evac in the Casino War, there was no surprises. We evac’d WITH our leadership, not after they made sure their stuff was safe.
      I would walk out of any alliance that did what Brave just did. They don’t have your back, They don’t have a shred of respect for their members. They are little more than drones with names, used to make these few people feel important in a video game.

      February 12, 2021 at 5:27 PM
  • Guilford Australis

    These leaks were particularly damaging because they confirmed several widespread suspicions about Brave’s situation. (1). n0rman confirmed in the second leak that Brave is facing imminent bankruptcy; (2). Rather than receiving support from TEST for their contributions to the war, Brave is *paying* TEST some bullshit tribute for the privilege of fighting Vily’s war; (3). Brave leadership knows it is screwing its line members with bad decisions; (4). Brave’s future is unsustainable if it continues to fight on behalf of TEST.

    It is very difficult to imagine that any alliance leader would look at those four realities and conclude “Continuing to fight TEST’s war is the best path forward for my alliance,” yet we’ve all seen the chat logs, and Brave hasn’t denied they are authentic.

    February 12, 2021 at 11:08 AM
    • Elthar Nox Guilford Australis

      It has been later revealed that the intel service that they pay for is an independant service, TEST also pays. But other than that, yep totally spot on. Worrying times.

      February 12, 2021 at 11:13 AM
      • Simon Chui Elthar Nox

        Of all the dumbass things that have come out of Legacy, the idea of independent contractor spies must be the absolute dumbest. Mercenaries are the people you trust the least. Spies are the people you need most to be trustworthy. How can you trust intel from someone who works for a paycheck, especially when your enemies have more money and can easily pay them more?

        February 12, 2021 at 10:17 PM
        • Romulus Loches Simon Chui

          It wouldn’t surprise me if it eventually came out that the “independent contractor spies” are actually just goon Black Hand who are spoon feeding select intel and pings while profiting off Legacy’s inability to run their own spy organization.

          February 13, 2021 at 5:52 AM
      • Garreth Vlox Elthar Nox

        “TEST also pays” I’m inclined to call bullshit on this, it screams vily just bullshitting to cover up for getting caught billing his allies that he essentially forced into this war. I don’t buy for one second the entire coalition is paying a single person for access to their super secret spy network.

        February 13, 2021 at 4:46 AM
    • William Doe Guilford Australis

      #3 is just infuriating. Actually PAYING TEST as a tribute to Vily? That’s really sad.
      Can’t help but feel pretty bad for BRAVE at this point, anyone with a couple of functioning braincells needs to either leave or force some new leadership in.

      February 12, 2021 at 11:16 AM
  • Havish Montak

    Test is Next!!! And Brave is in the way!!!

    In all honesty; TEST siding with a group that announced that they want to make players quit removes any sort of moral high ground they have. We are going to kill Test and anyone who stands with them. Brave is going to lose a lot of assets.

    The offer to join the Imperium for line members is open.

    February 12, 2021 at 1:28 PM
  • Alaric Faelen

    The article doesn’t address the biggest casualty here– trust in your alliance leadership. The spin is for everyone else. When you spin to your own people, that is simply lying. This is not leadership in any meaningful sense. This is internet nerds lying to people get them to do what they want for their own gain.
    One of the worst things you can do is have the leadership evac their expensive items while the line members are kept in the dark. We’ve seen this behavior before up north where NC/PL leaders made sure their faction capitals got to safety while the line members died en masse to make it happen. The line members are told ‘you have two move ops to evac or it’s left behind’ or even worse– find your own way out. But the leadership has long since made sure their assets are safe- that peels back any facade of leadership giving a damn about their members. The few at the top will conspire to protect themselves and to hell with everyone not on their level. They are just pawns for these people to feel important in a video game.
    Brave used to be honorable. They have lived long enough to see themselves become the villain. The very definition of greedy, dishonest people at the top using the rank and file to make them rich, protect their assets, and do their bidding- all while keeping their members in the dark at best, and happily lying to their faces at worst.

    February 12, 2021 at 5:19 PM
    • Kyeudo Alaric Faelen

      I wouldn’t say that spinning the story to your own people is lying. You can’t communicate a set of facts without also communicating a narrative about those facts and your narrative often does not match the narrative of the other side due to subjective bias. What is lying is holding back some of the facts in order to make the narrative work.

      February 14, 2021 at 7:19 PM
  • kwnyupstate .

    I figured this would happen since any group of “newbies” will be easily ruined when pressure is put on it. This proves what Imperium and others are doing to BRAVE is on the right track.
    The idea of BRAVE paying TEST tribute while at the same time not having enough money to support itself is hilarious. I wonder if they ever told their line members about that?

    February 12, 2021 at 8:39 PM
  • Simon Chui

    Wait, Brave leadership doesn’t have a single dictator at the top? This egalitarian stuff is nice to have in peace time, but it’s not going to hold together under the pressures of war. I guess they’re learning that lesson now.

    Also, their war leaders don’t seem to understand that territory + resources + people + industry = ships. The idea that you can go fight a war now and figure out the industry later is completely backwards.

    February 12, 2021 at 10:31 PM
  • Deni'z von Meanace

    The sooner line memebers open their eyes and trusted by line memebers FC’s could form up an urgent meeting with management for explanations and clear plans on the nearest Future.

    February 12, 2021 at 10:35 PM
  • Alison King

    Brave switch sides while you still can

    February 13, 2021 at 2:03 AM
  • kwnyupstate .

    Put more pressure on BRAVE immediately and keep linking this and sending this to their line members. Ask them if their leadership will have an open Q&A session where they are directly accountable to members and will answer these questions instead of sending out word-crafted statements which seek to obfuscate the issue and imply they are answers when in reality they are more spin.

    February 13, 2021 at 3:15 PM
  • Moomin Amatin

    So who stands to benefit most from these leaks? Not Brave, not goons, not PanFam or Frat either. But Trapi needed more bodies commited to the front line and Brave had already pulled back to Catch. Shattered Armor has history with Trapi, I wonder…..?

    February 13, 2021 at 4:01 PM
  • Carvj94

    These logs are downright hilarious to read. I didn’t know what a dysfunctional shit show BRAVE was in the background.

    February 14, 2021 at 5:30 AM
  • Rammel Kas

    To someone who was there during the coups and the HERO coalition back then… this has all happened before. The poison of TEST and PL alts weakened HERO. They poached people then too. They radicalized others such that your leaders were unable to take certain deals which could have led to a better place. When HERO was broken up later it was PL who poached the more vulnerable FC and malleable pilots into forming Pandemic Horde as a renter/feeder corporation. Before PL TEST also poached some people before they abandoned the HERO coalition when news came of the PL “deployment”.

    That’s right… TEST ran away and left the rest to try cope on their own. Fast forward to today and TEST are again running away from defending Brave stuff. I bet if Brave were to fold now they would poach all your friends like they did then. Welcome to Vily’s vision of the blue doughnut of EVE and the PVE krabville where nobody has the right to take fleets anywhere else. And of course you will pay him taxes. When he’s not too busy running away from PL.

    February 14, 2021 at 8:51 AM
    • Deni'z von Meanace Rammel Kas

      Was that the time when BoVRil miners left Brave?

      February 15, 2021 at 4:27 AM
      • Rammel Kas Deni'z von Meanace

        No. Bovril was still doing pioneer work for HERO during the resettlement in Fountain afterwards. So I am probably more old-school Brave than you imagine.

        February 15, 2021 at 2:12 PM
  • darth

    Spam and insults in local chat sounds familiar. Brave is under bad influence :/

    February 14, 2021 at 4:43 PM