World War Bee: Week 37

2021-03-22

Week 37 of World War Bee was busier than week 36, with 7 reported fights and 66 total hostile actions. Delve and the East were the busiest regions of the bunch, as structure bashes traded across the south of New Eden.

[Editor’s Note: The link for INN’s cumulative battle tracker is here. INN has now hit database issues with Fleetcom.space’s tracker and will attempt to report monthly on total losses.]

There were no reported battles that exceeded 20 billion ISK in cumulative losses, excluding the 1DQ1-A/T5ZI-S border skirmish battle report. Of additional note, the Imperium lost one Keepstar in Delve.

The three major theaters are the North (Fountain and the border with Aridia and Cloud Ring as well as western Delve), the South (the rest of Delve, Querious, and Period Basis), and the East (Paragon Soul, Catch, Stain, Immensea, and Esoteria)

THE NORTHERN THEATER

The Northern theater was largely quiet this week with only two major actions, Goons losing a Sotiyo on Sunday and Panfam losing a Hel.

THE EASTERN THEATER

The week in the East was quite busy with structure bashes across Legacy space. Sunday saw Legacy lose a pair of Fortizars, a Tatara, and an Azbel. Monday, TEST lost a Fortizar, Legacy lost a Fortizar, an Azbel, and Brave lost a faction Fortizar. Tuesday, Legacy lost four separate Fortizars, a pair of faction Fortizars, a pair of Sotiyos, a Raitaru, and an Azbel. Wednesday, Legacy lost an Azbel and a Tatara, while Brave lost a Tatara and ultimately, their former capital system of GE-8JV to a coalition of assailants. Thursday, Brave lost a pair of Fortizars, while Legacy lost a Fortizar, and a pair of faction Fortizars. Friday, Legacy lost a pair of Fortizars and Brave lost a Fortizar as well. Saturday ended the week with Brave losing another Fortizar.

THE SOUTHERN THEATER

The Southern theater was pretty interesting in week 37, based on reported actions, in part because of the major structure bashes. Sunday began with Siberian Squads and Goons each losing a supercarrier to the AJI-MA bait beacon, while Horde lost an Azbel. The border skirmish battle report showed the Imperium killing 20.1 billion ISK for 27.7 billion in losses. Monday, Goons lost a titan to the AJI-MA bait beacon and were on the receiving end of a sloppy fight in 1DQ1-A, with the border skirmish battle report showing the Imperium killing 36 billion ISK for 111.1 billion ISK in losses. Tuesday, Goons lost a Sotiyo and a pair of Fortizars, while the border skirmish battle report showed the Imperium killed 12.5 billion ISK for 20.6 billion in losses. Wednesday, the border skirmish battle report showed the Imperium killing 15 billion ISK for 19 billion in losses.

Thursday, a former Goon lost their titan which was likely parked in a now-killed Keepstar, while the border skirmish had the Imperium killing 16.2 billion ISK for 7.1 billion in losses. Friday, Goons lost three Sotiyos, a Fortizar, a faction Fortizar, a Tatara, an Azbel, and the D-W7F0 Keepstar. The border skirmish battle report had the Imperium killing 17.3 billion ISK for 21.2 billion in losses. Saturday, Goons lost an Azbel, while the border skirmish battle report had the Imperium losing 40.1 billion ISK for 20.3 billion in kills.

ELSEWHERE IN NEW EDEN

Monday, Legacy lost a Fortizar in Tenerifis. Tuesday, Legacy lost a faction Fortizar and a Raitaru, while TEST lost an Erebus in low sec, and Initiative Associates lost a Nyx, also in low sec. Wednesday, a third party ratting Hel was killed in Feythabolis, while Legacy lost an Azbel and a Nyx. Thursday, Legacy lost a Tatara.

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Comments

  • chimpy

    Genuine question. IF recent wars against the Goons could be attributed to Goons goonish behaviour does goon behaviour change in the future? Hypothetically let’s skip forwards in time an unspecified amount. Grudges have been settled, space is consolidated, relative tranquility rules, a quiet moment for all. Will we see Viceroy Goongeld programs again, or a kind gentler less feather ruffling Mittani? Do fish hath charms to soothe a savage breast, to soften rocks, or bend a knotted oak?

    March 22, 2021 at 11:02 AM
    • Guilford Australis chimpy

      The Mittani is what he is. He’s not going to change, nor will the Goon ethos.

      That said, I think this war and its predecessor (the Casino War) were more about ancient resentments than Goon culture. PanFam still hates GSF because of what happened to BoB (now NC.) during the Great War. PGL blames GSF for the death of his original alliance Nulli Secunda. Vily was a GSF fleet commander who took a break for a bit and thought he wasn’t given a fair shake when he came back to the alliance.

      March 22, 2021 at 11:28 AM
      • kwnyupstate . Guilford Australis

        GOON culture is awesome. Definitely nothing to warrant a huge war against them.

        March 22, 2021 at 11:02 PM
    • Rammel Kas chimpy

      I don’t think you have a necessary perspective over time for Nullsec. All the big blocs would naturally go to war every 3,6 or 12 months. They all do this. During my time in Brave 6-7 years ago it was a pilot from NC. called Reconndite stirring the pot which eventually flared into the Pandemic Legion evictions which pushed Brave out of Catch into Fountain. Then Black Legion pushed them out of Fountain in turn. It’s what all these groups do.

      The warfare however functions much like seasonal brush fires to certain ecosystems. The make space out of the dead growth to allow new growth the next rainy season. Without which the ecosystem stagnates in biodiversity and dies. In this same sense periodical smaller destruction cycles rejuvenate and strengthen the player groups. For a long while now groups who go into the safest areas like Outter Ring would gradually die on the vine. They find it very hard to hold players if nothing happens. Even if they are relatively secure from outside pressure. The lack of threat leads to people just not engaging and then not logging in. Panfam held Drones like xDeath before, but they don’t live there exclusively. Their staging during the Tribute war was in M-O. Imperium deliberately settled in Delve among other reasons because it has that NPC inclusion which allows a bit of small-scale harassment.

      So your question betrays a lack of understanding of this very essential community mechanic.

      What contrasts the current war to the revitalizing smaller conflicts and border skirmishes is size, scope, scale and the fact that the Papi group have done something rather un-natural and potentially bad for the health of the game and blued EVERY OTHER group out there to try and outnumber Imperium. If it’s allowed to perpetuate this WILL kill the game just like Outter Ring has claimed quite the assorted trophy case of alliances who now live in Doomheim.

      March 22, 2021 at 12:13 PM
      • chimpy Rammel Kas

        Rammel Kas. I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said. The cycle of death and rebirth is necessary for the health of the game. Stagnation is bad. The blue doughnut is the incarnation made manifest of stagnation and takes Tranquility one step closer to Serenity’s heat death. Your middle paragraph very much reminded me of when Sheridan went to Z’ha’dum and the human leader intermediate of the shadows laid out the benefits of the cycle of conflict between races. I had to google to make sure you didn’t just copy and paste it. Let me rephrase my original question another way. To what degree might the last few escallatingly rabid, almost religious, anti-Goon focused jihads change Goons outwards diplomatic facade in the future? Might Goons fancy a short spell out of the limelight as everyone’s favourite cartoon villains?

        March 22, 2021 at 12:51 PM
        • Rammel Kas chimpy

          Aah ok. But here’s where you run into the perception problem. We cannot magically reach out and change people’s internal narratives, discussions and forums. Nobody really can. What you seem to be referencing is a reddit-concocted perception, a construct of someone else’s imagination and a rather trite shit-post someone made on the older eve forums many years ago. It is NOT in point of fact the truth. A lot of these urban legends other people bandy about are a species of make believe which we can never reasonably even get to know exist or are out there. Some reference point may exist. But beyond that a lot of it actually spawns from outside of the Imperium spontaneously.

          Also do not ever mistake a player group’s right to self determine. Vince Draken would have you out on your ear if you suggested something like a species of public oversight to NC. You would be lucky in the extreme if they didn’t also gank your ship as you undock. NO group is accountable to the random internet trolls and nerds. That is not in the remit of reddit. As long as no public laws are broken and the EULA and TOS are not violated CCP are very tolerant of how groups freely associate and arrange their affairs. I should not have to point this out. And this goes twice over for cases where groups concoct their fictional boogeymen in a controlled echo chamber.

          March 22, 2021 at 1:22 PM
          • chimpy Rammel Kas

            I feel you are sort of projecting to a degree. Not major stuff, most likely Goons face the same shit every day, and you might think you are replying to the same stuff you face every day. I’m a third party who rather likes the Goons, their cartoon villainy, and their Blofeld leader. I don’t at all disagree that a lot of the Goon public image is propaganda and spin. But I clasp that spun image tightly and refuse to let go of it. Not because I’m indoctrinated against the Goons, but because that image adds significant flavour colour and spice to Eve for me and I’m not prepard to give up all that swashbuckling for the probable dull reality of the drudgery that underpins an organisation as massive as the Imperium. I love the meta and propganda of Eve. When someone accuses someone else on an Eve forum of “that’s propaganda”, my mental reaction is “great, that’s what I’m here for”. Your perception problem is the butter on my crumpet. You can check my post history if you like. I would argue that the Goons have taken many actions, indeed probably cultivated their current “image”. For instance the Goon Viceroy program of 2015, the very name calculated to imply and evoke colonial subjagation, which is exactly what it was. Yeah there’s a ton of propaganda, a lot of it is directed against Goons, but to suggest none of it is at all deserved is disingenuous. Your defense of self determination I don’t get in the context as an answer to me. I would be bitterly dissapointed if the Goons became just like everyone else. My original question, and rephrasing, is not propaganda disguised as a question, it’s a genuine question. Might what the Goons have been through alter their future diplomatic posture? I’ve removed all floweryness from the question this time to make it as dull as possible. It’s not a trick question, I’m actually curious to get some opinions on it. My opinion is that Goons might tone down, and especially if papi starts tearing itself apart, the Goons will sit back, watch from the sidelines as they replace lost material, and then settle some scores. Revenge is a dish best served cold. I however know my own opinion, I was after some other opinions.

            March 22, 2021 at 2:16 PM
          • Rammel Kas chimpy

            Ok… a bit more context and :words:. Thank you.

            Curious side note on the Viceroy program. It was designed by Sion if I remember to try get in on the very successful roll out of rental programs in Drones and elsewhere by our traditional sparring partners in Panfam. Yes the name was deliberate, and meant to call attention. Like many things we don’t like we know that there may be attention called to it if we make as obnoxious as use of it as we can. It wasn’t taken as seriously by the line Goons back then. Someone we ran into as Karmafleet got told to simply join Karma and become a full member and not bother with this rental social construct thingy. Think they are still with us to this day.

            Now to your question. No, we don’t buy into other people’s metagames like that. Imperium is self-described as more of a “Chaotic-Lawful” on the D&D spectrum if you’re familiar with that personality. We have our “code” and community and culture. Those who are our friends find us to be the best of allies. Those who malign us find us to be their worst possible enemies. This is a very rough generalization though. But this may explain why some guys REALLY hate having to fight against us. That being said it is an extremely diverse group. You get personalities like Asher and Apple Pear alongside John and Havish and Moomin and Jay. We look out for our own. Devil take you if we find you trying to throw it big over any of our friends. And we do play a long LONG game of consequences. We only just closed the Book of Grudges opened 14-odd years ago when Sir Molle uttered that forum post “There are no Goons, goodbye”. (Although some in PH seem to want that opened again.) Now we looked up and there is Vily and PGL wanting to exterminate us. Well we’ll see about that.

            March 22, 2021 at 4:48 PM
          • Gray Doc chimpy

            I think your initial question is a good one and something Goons, in general, should ponder. Having said that, it is very difficult to change a person’s perception of something. Even explaining facts won’t work. For example, look at the current state of “masking” in the US and whether or not people should wear them. People who are anti-mask simply will NOT be persuaded by any fact, stat, historical example, etc. thrown their way. They have shaped the world they way they want and will not change their minds, no matter the evidence. Your own example of the Viceroy system, from 2015, is six years out of date and yet you cite it as something you want to cling to as representative of Goon culture. You suggest, indeed, you don’t really WANT to change your perception of Goons, you like your “Blofeld” image of Mittani and that your perception of Goons is far more important than any true picture of Goon culture as it stands now. So, if Goons can’t persuade someone like you, who has an open mind and asks good questions, what hope to change the minds of masses who prefer complete BS because that fits their world view?

            March 22, 2021 at 5:00 PM
          • chimpy Gray Doc

            I think you guys display symptoms of over exposure to negative vibes. There’s seems to be an under current of being on the defensive as a first instinct. The reason I don’t want my perseption of the Goons to change is because I get so much pleasure from the character of the Goons. There are so many aspects, pride in being F1 monkeys which is a deliberate opposite of the elitism you find in so many other games. It speaks to subversion. Goon culture ( to an outsider ) reminds me of the National Lampoon’s Animal House, a melting pot of oddbals and misfits causing chaos and mayhem but without a nasty or malignant bone in their body. And talking of oddballs, Kelly’s Heros’ Oddball fits the same mould. The Goons reputation in Eve is all of the things they’ve ever done in the sandbox no matter when, and far from trying to distance yourselfs from that image I think you guys should embrace it. It’s who you are. I don’t even play Eve currently but I always try and catch the Meta Show live on INN. I love watching the Mittani sperg off, Brisc Rubal Fountain, Frank and Querios George, Merkelchen, Theta Thursdays etc…. You guys have Mind1 doing live sets. Those covers of famous songs like Billy Joel’s We Didn’t Crash the Server. Other songs in that cover series clearly showing off the real closeness of Goons players as a giant family at real life events. That guy in some of those videos with a stripey bee jersey and pointy German war hat whoever the fuck he is 🙂 So much meta. Such a strong community.
            In a sandbox game where you are allowed to play the “bad” guys, there’s nothing at all wrong with playing the “bad” guys. In many posts in many Eve places one thing that confuses me the most is when people clearly can’t distinguish the difference between people having fun playing the “bad” guys and thinking the players are assholes in real life. But for me that’s their problem. I spend more time watching Goon meta, and talking about it here than I do actually playing Eve. You guys should stop getting defensive about beeing Goons 🙂

            March 22, 2021 at 10:59 PM
          • Moomin Amatin chimpy

            I am sure you can appreciate that there is a certain amount of external conditioning going on. I like us goons being exactly who we are. I am glad we are in this war. I am glad we are having a chance to show the World what we have collectively built over the years. I am glad that the very same people who said they would exterminate goons from the game over a decade ago are still here with the same people trying to do it in this war. :CONDI:

            March 22, 2021 at 11:28 PM
          • Seir Luciel Rammel Kas

            “What you seem to be referencing is a reddit-concocted perception, a construct of someone else’s imagination and a rather trite shit-post

            someone made on the older eve forums many years ago.”

            I don’t know if that’s fully true. This stuff is even in academic articles. An article by Richard Page entitled “We Play Something Awful” puts a spotlight on Goon culture as a social/video game phenomenon. The following are some of the section titles: “Goons are social, Goons are

            insular, Goons are authoritarian, Goons are assholes.”

            Here is some elaboration on the last one: “The goon project in EVE is more than griefing and is more accurately termed among goons as being a ‘space asshole.’ This word has provenance in SA [Something Awful Forums], beginning with SA front page articles on’asshole physics.’ For goons, being an asshole means refusing to take anything seriously and subverting the systems that other people take seriously. This attitude originates in the foundation of SA, runs through the culture of the SA forums, and can be seen in the ways that goons play online games, including EVE Online.”

            Do I think Goons are actually assholes? No. They, like chimpy notes, are perfectly normal, decent people: gamers like everyone else. However, Goon reputation isn’t only the victim of outside slander. Goons leaned into their role as the “bad guys.” I think it was initially for fun, but also because if they were going to be pegged that way it makes sense to just affirm other’s perceptions and be the “bad” guy everyone wants to see you as. It works as a great marketing scheme, and may even make people afraid of you — in a good way. There is also an element where Goons were just spawned from a particular culture, one that is unique in EVE. I mean, look where we are

            posting. We are on the imperium’s own news and article site. No other EVE group has something like this, with a whole campaign of meta-shows and other outside content. Goons are unique culturally, and there are plenty who find that culture (for whatever reason, justified or not) reason enough for wanting to attack goons.

            I think chimpy’s question is actually a good one, though I might further another question. Is it possible that Goon’s are the victims of their own marketing? It makes total sense to portray yourself as the strongest, baddest, Russian-est (tapping into Western prejudices and lingering

            cold-war sentiments/fears) group in the game. It makes people fear and respect you, as well as want to join you. But it also hands others a

            “goons are bad” narrative on a silver platter. Being the “bad guys” can work for you as much as against you. Being the “space asshole” can make the game more fun, but it can also give others a reason to shoot you without any qualms about it.

            March 22, 2021 at 4:32 PM
          • Rammel Kas Seir Luciel

            I’ve skimmed through that paper you linked. For some reason it wants to grab my IRL email. Hmm. Some criticism… does not seem to cite a publish date. Latest source he cites is 2010 vintage. So this could be very VERY out of date for who or what the groups are. It still refers to the CFC. The Imperium rebrand happened before the Casino War even started. So it’s at least older than that.

            It cites a lot about the Something Awful forum, which was a kind of precursor gamer forum for a diverse series of communities before things like Reddit or it’s predecessor 4chan. Only really the OG goons were a fraction of that forum who read the recruitment sponsor post to go and try out EVE… many MANY years ago now. However this is not a simple thing. SA members include a LOT of Pandemic Legion as well as a fair few TEST pilots nowadays too. So what happened?

            Goons go through periodic Cultural Revolutions to adjust any glaring malpractice. Stuff like sexism and what modern readers would recognize as not good social mores got worked out of the culture. So if you find a player who won’t or can’t adjust to acceptable like…. just basic acceptable behavior they would have left of their own will at those points. Others just drifted off did their own thing. Others yet made enemies through things they did. Hence we have the blacklist of “goonfuckers”, which incidentally seems to be a pain point for some PL people who can’t get their alts back in. Wonder what they did.

            I can’t think of any old goon I’ve spoken to who actually played 2nd life. Which your publisher cited as a community of griefers. SA is however a very diverse community. They only required that $10 fee up front to get in. So a lot of very diverse people got in there and used it to link up with like minded people. Is it still even relevant to today? Perhaps so… because of the recent fake-coup launched by Darius Johnson… (now in PL, the actual guy who uttered that line about “ruin YOUR game”). Perhaps proof if anything that posting on SA has no influence on Goonswarm. Since even the few people he reached out to personally came back and did not follow Darius to PL. For most of Goonswarm there was barely a blip about this. Just a matter of fact “oh by the way this funny thing happened” the weekend after.

            Fun Fact… SA membership was a requirement only for Waffe-related corps of the initial founding so to speak. If you look at the participation metrics most Goonswarm today are actually in Karmafleet. Karmafleet has no SA member requirement. There is no link there. Although a few people who got curious and explored to find out what the noise was about since. I think they were a bit disappointed to find a lot of the actual people behind those accounts are now part of…. you guessed it… part of PAPI.

            So quite possibly a LOT has changed since this article got published. You’re not comparing apples anymore. And the article seems to seek to explore past events and past cultures. This dates it. Culture in general moves. Social mores mutate over time. Hence the field of study. Not quite a evidence point for a current group.

            So that being said. Your question about reputation. What exactly sparks reputation in EVE. Since Imperium don’t really do EVE-O forums after being bitten. And Reddit is a cesspool of mostly hostile mostly vocal toxic persons with proven evil track records. Or at the very least the most of them are indifferent to the bias long as it doesn’t touch them. So where do these reputations come from exactly? Is it invented by someone on those forums? You don’t exactly see Imperium directors post stuff like “hey we’re mercs for hire and this is what we do”. No. Instead we have Mittens taking a lead off the reddit meta wave and leaning into the most grotesque version of it with his unique talents to mock opponents or just run his mouth. But are these memes what Imperium actually do internally and what we’re really like?

            The truth is simply more pragmatic. We treat people about as well as they treat us, and are indifferent to the rest. That first part is perhaps the keenest predictor for the point here. Our worst reputation comes by way of people who’ve dealt with us for their own projects. Doesn’t take too long to cotton on to people who are just trying to take from you or worse. By contrast people in the Imperium are surprisingly… just people. People who do good things tend to be promoted on a meritocracy. And that’s how pilots like Asher Elias rise.

            March 22, 2021 at 8:55 PM
          • Seir Luciel Rammel Kas

            My point with the article was not that it was an accurate reflection of what Goons are like. You say, quite rightly “a LOT has changed since this article got published.” One of the things I most respect about Goons is their willingness to have Cultural Revolutions to try and clean the group up; I think steps like that are important.

            My point is not about the character of Goons but about their reputation. “Culture in general moves. Social mores mutate over time,” you say and I completely agree with you. I also agree that this has been the case with Goons. But reputation changes much more slowly; it certainly changes more slowly than culture. And that is really what is at stake and what we are talking about here.

            Goons developed a certain reputation that has proved unfavorable. My point of contention is that this reputation was not solely developed by the “cesspool” of Reddit. The historical Goons, even if they aren’t a part of the group any more like Darius Johnson, still cast a shadow over Goon reputation. Furthermore, a single guy like Darius saying some crazy thing is particularly uninteresting; that happens all the time. But the fact that the Goons adopted this slogan as a group, and that this is still remembered by the EVE community, is significant and is actively affecting the current conflict. It is like the old proverb about words being like feathers in a pillow; its not so easy to put them back once they are out and caught by the wind. In regards to reputation, current Goon culture is irrelevant.

            Goons adopted early on a particular stance or philosophy regarding the game. And I think you are right to say that Goonwaffe members reflect this far more than members of the more recent Karma fleet members. However, Goonwaffe members have not faded away. I see them frequently on the battlefield as they continue to fill a worthy portion of the Imperium ranks; older players (of which EVE has plenty) remember that name and what it has meant in times past.

            In sum: Goons have a PR problem and one partially of their own making, and the state of their present characters is besides the point.

            March 23, 2021 at 4:11 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Seir Luciel

            The PR issue is already being addressed. For this war we have learnt that yet again the same people from The Great War, Fountain War, Casino War are only able to put forward the same weak narrative that they have before. I should clarify, when I say weak it is true when investigated. The thing is most people are happy to not investigate and just run with the popular narrative at the time.

            So for instance in this war PAPI have gone from trying to pursue a righteous war in order to save New Eden from the evil Goons to, wanting to rent all of nullsec out. The optics going forward for this war for The Imperium are not going to look bad at all. The Imperium are fighting outnumbered against the largest blue donut ever formed who intend to rent out space should The Imperium be defeated. Can the same be said for every PAPI member alliance, of that I am less certain.

            March 23, 2021 at 6:02 PM
    • Sylphinja the Dark Rose chimpy

      People don’t change.

      They just make you think they changed, so they can continue abusing you.

      The only way Goons could change for the better would be to cut off the hubris – Mittens and his closest associates – and even then, it would have small chances of changing.

      March 22, 2021 at 12:44 PM
      • Imperium and all the blocs are exactly the same in picking wars with people. To insinuate otherwise is a very blatant untruth. But you had to reach for the hyperbole which betrays your affiliation and bias. This facet of your salty post is really REALLY interesting wouldn’t you say?

        As Imperium we are so very used to people lying about us this form of unsubstantiated accusation doesn’t make any difference anymore. You get yelled at in an hour of hate by clueless internet nerds who assume they know a thing eventually it becomes pretty pointless even guiding them to the truth of a matter. But the frequency and venom of the attempts do point out very handily when we’re about to succeed in an endeavor.

        March 22, 2021 at 12:53 PM
      • Sylphinja when you say “The only way Goons could change FOR THE BETTER” ( my emphasis) I think you missed my point. My original question was about willingness of the Goons to adapt/change as a result of a very strong stimulus without any implied moral judgement on my part. That you inferred a negative moral judgement tells me a little about you. Given all of this thread – an over sensitivity of Goons to get defensive given how much negativity they face towards their culture as the “bad” guys, and your providing a vindication of that conditioning I’m coming to the conclusion that the general Eve perception of the Goons is a very stale polarised cliche. I find this quite dissappointing. Everyone loves bad guys, especially me, but I didn’t realise quite how much Eve players really believed this rather than just enjoyed it and played along with it. I’m starting a bit more to understand the Goons have a developed siege mentality because of how blinkered the rest of Eve is. The thing is, if you look into Goon culture you will discover a family that has no equal anywhere else in Eve. A long long time ago two T1 catalysts tried to gank my mackinaw in high sec. They were just two guys trying to get started in ganking. The spreadsheet would have told them they needed more, but they didn’t even know about the spreadsheet, they were just giving it a go. I gave them about 30 mill each ( the cost of roughly two T2 catas back then ) to refund their loss,,and put them in touch with The New Order ( CODE before they were called CODE ), showed them the ganker training materials etc… They were a bit confused because I don’t think they expected their victim to give them money and help, but they went on their merry way to learn how to gank properly 🙂 Methinks that I need to stop projecting myself and find a spot where my mentality can thrive. A niche viewpoint has many many more opportunities to spot and cause chaos than the 99% norm and if there’s one game full of opportunities for those looking in odd places, it’s Eve online 🙂

        March 24, 2021 at 11:13 PM
    • Moomin Amatin chimpy

      No. You will see exactly what you need to see in order to make sure that there is a reason to go to war with The Imperium. Fish, no. Music, yes.

      An interesting question(s) as there will be a mixture of views from the same side. The main thing to note in all of this is that The Imperium does not regret World War Bee or The Casino War. Both of these wars will serve The Imperium well in the future as they have in the past.

      March 22, 2021 at 5:45 PM