WinterCo Townhall

2021-07-28

Header art by Elthar Nox

Winter Coalition leader Noraus stressed the importance of the final push in Delve as he addressed his multinational coalition. In the 40-minute long Townhall, he covered a vast array of topics, rejecting the propaganda and vitriol common in time of war. In the style of a calm, intelligent, but stern leader, Noraus did not shy away from the difficulties that PAPI forces would be facing over the next month: “This is the most unprecedented thing that we are trying to do, let alone under a cyno jammer.”

“People are getting bored”

“Goons have mastered defense,” Noraus announced. “Initially this equilibrium was good, because Goons were cornered, but in the long run PAPI people are getting bored. . . . There were two options for us; either we have an organized reset between the PAPI coalitions – [or] we want to end this war. One way or the other, win or lose, we want to end this war.” The WinterCo leader then went on to reveal the timescale that has been set by PAPI. He thinks the war will be over in a month or two.

There has been continual shifting of timescales across the PAPI mega-coalition, with all leaders differing in the time allocated for move ops, from 5-10 days and also setting a mixed timescale for the duration of the assault on O-EIMK. “It is very clear now, in the next few weeks we will start our final push. This will last for a week or two, and we will hope for the best,” Noraus stated. Yet, unlike other alliance leaders, Noraus sounded guarded, but positive, highlighting not only the unique challenge they face but also the opportunity that WinterCo pilots have to be a part of EVE history. “If we fail, this is going to be the last push [to attack] Goons. I don’t think anyone will try to organize the server again to fight Goons – so you don’t want to miss out.”

After discussing the overall plan, Noraus moved into the details. WinterCo will pay for fuel costs; they are also providing T3C hulls for either Tengus or Loki. There will be a “mixture of new tactics that we (PAPI) have tested in Sisi,” and he encouraged his pilots to come prepared with their capstone doctrines but also Hurricanes, Drakes and Feroxes. Battlecruisers appear to be the spear on which PAPI will attempt to crack the constellation. High damage, low tank, they will attempt to use their superior numbers in an assault en masse.

The line in the sand

At no stage did the townhall move either into the outrageous rhetoric of extermination nor did it drift into the despair shown by Progodlegend in the Legacy townhall. This was matter of fact, planned, and well-delivered in a soft and deliberate manner. “If goons have proved that under the current mechanics they are unbreakable, we will accept the result and go back.” This is a clear line in the sand, a deliberate narrative to end the war. But he once again reiterated the historical significance of the next few weeks. “During the final push I don’t think anyone should be logging in in Vale. You will be regretting that you are not part of this final push, win or lose, we will be making history.”

Other issues were also addressed that focused on FRT’s current situation in the north. He covered the remaining fortizars belonging to V0LTA in Tribute, but also reminded his alliance that both WinterCo and V0LTA had mutual interests in supporting Out Of The Blue in their actions against Fountain Alliance Please Ignore (FAPI). The landscape is complicated for a growing entity like WinterCo.

WinterCo’s eyes are on Snuffed Out

Snuffed Out’s campaign in Vale was also highlighted. This appears to be a driving motive in Noraus’ calculations on ending World War Bee. “I am very excited to get this started (against Snuffed Out) – everyone in this coalition is screaming for revenge; we don’t appreciate Snuffed hanging out in our space. To fight a Low Alliance like Snuff, they are the ultimate manifest form – they are the best – if we want to fight them, aside from our quantity we need to have quality. If we can fight toe-to-toe against Snuffed, in their TZ (EU), there isn’t much we can’t do. This is something I am eager to find out.”

As the Townhall moved to questions, some of the most interesting answers came out. When questioned about Legacy’s future he answered honestly : “If we lose this push will we lose Delve? – to put it bluntly, yes, if we lose this, TEST will lose Delve. TEST will be the most immediate casualty of this war.” The writing is on the wall is clear for not only the Imperium, but also Legacy’s allies in this war. But, this did not stop his continued commitment to the war and backing WinterCo’s allies. “We are going to help TEST and Legacy, unlike FI.RE and AOM who are not actively contributing to this war, we have an understanding between us and TEST – so we are going to help them.”

Little Brother Will Call the Shots

Finally, Noraus was questioned on the use of super capitals in O-EIMK. Here we witnessed the emergence of a new EVE superpower. Noraus confirmed that past experienced had left him “personally traumatized” after M2-XFE. “But I am willing to pay the iron price, even knowing that supercaps are irreplaceable at the moment – but as long as I know what we are going into, and as long as I am making the call myself. Not letting others FC my supercaps.” If Winter Coalition are going to drop Titans against the Imperial Palace, Noraus, not Vily or PGL, will be making that call.

Many have said from the outset that the true winners of this war, whatever the outcome, would be Fraternity and Winter Coalition. Noraus paints the picture of a man who really understands the cut-throat nature of nullsec politics. His coalition has done their part in the war against the Imperium, and they are throwing themselves against the wall in this last attempt to gain victory from the claws of defeat. The real question remains: will Noraus be the one to say jump, or will he leave Delve with his Titan fleet intact.

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Comments

  • Malcanis

    Never forget that Noraus came to EVE after fighting a long war in essentially the role that the Imperium are playing now. His (unfounded) worry is that the Imperium wants to be TQ’s PIBC, but he will surely understand and respect the ferocity and implacability of the defence we are maintaining.

    July 29, 2021 at 10:23 AM
    • Moomin Amatin Malcanis

      Not quite from my own understanding. Noraus has not played on Serenity and they are not the founder of Fraternity. That honour goes to “Wind Spirits” who is currently a member of Imperium. Noraus has always played on Tranquility and has been a member of NCDot and also has been kicked from SNUFF. Noraus has boasted of his time within NCDot and his relationship with Vince Draken leader of NCDot.

      AoM (PIBC) were the winners on Serenity and what is Winter Coalition now, headed by Fraternity, were the losers. There was a lot of animosity carried over from Serenity to Tranquility. As Noraus rightly points out, AoM are getting stronger which is not in the interests of Fraternity. I mean they have “won the server” once already right?

      Anyhoo I consider Noraus to be a slippery fish who should be listened to. Not always what he says either, if you know what I mean. With Winter Co looking to flesh out all of the timezones it means only one thing. Winter Co has plans :-).

      July 29, 2021 at 11:33 AM
  • Moomin Amatin

    It was a solid townhall. Nothing dodged or too fanciful. Now as much as Noraus sold the idea of the “big assault” as being something that Winter Co members should not miss out on, it will be interesting to see how seriously this is taken by the line members.

    Just over a year ago TAPI and Legacy were bragging about how they had won the war against Winter Co. A war where considerable ISK/assets were transfered from Frat to TAPI. As anyone can tell you, TAPI are far from gracious winners or losers. We now see ourselves with Frat being in control of World War Bee but also the fate of The Legacy Coalition. TAPI, may you live in interesting times.

    July 29, 2021 at 11:39 AM
  • Guilford Australis

    I like Noraus. He’s honest and straightforward. He pretty much nailed the situation for PAPI here. He acknowledges the “final push” against The Imperium is unlikely to succeed, and also admits the war needs to end in a matter of weeks rather than months or even years (as some PAPI leaders and a certain podcast host seem to envision).

    When a coalition three times larger than its enemy gets to the point it’s being outformed 2:1 after 13 months of horseshit like structure bashes, failed gimmick subcap doctrines, endless move ops, announcements about future announcements, and open hedging about the possibility of success, the writing on the wall is pretty obvious. Noraus is wiser than his peers in PAPI “leadership” for acknowledging it and making plans to move on.

    July 29, 2021 at 12:12 PM
  • Dave Stark

    Noraus continues to impress me and I have a lot of respect for him.

    July 29, 2021 at 2:11 PM
    • Guilford Australis Dave Stark

      The moment I realized Noraus is just genuinely a quality leader was two or three years ago, after WinterCo had been fighting Legacy around Detorid, and he announced that he was surrendering because he was tired of his line members getting crapped on with stuff like TEST’s signature fleet-invite baiting and other petty stupidity.

      He walked away from a war he might have been able to win because he recognized his line members were suffering. That is a lesson in leadership the rest of PAPI’s directors haven’t learned.

      July 29, 2021 at 3:49 PM
  • Garreth Vlox

    “High damage, low tank, they will attempt to use their superior numbers in an assault en masse.”

    Because that won’t end in a blazing fire when confronted with thounsands of carriers and supers and tens of thousands of fighters. The only think they will be able to kill is the server node when they try to jump in another 5k ppl at once so they can cry about how CCP is helping goons before they go home.

    July 29, 2021 at 6:33 PM
  • Deni'z von Meanace

    Not sure about Imp folks trying to flirt with this guy. He is China by the roots of his hairs. He has his own plans and those plans based on dominance. He was fighting Legacy and that’s was bad for his coalition. He knew Imp won’t agree to help him to win Legacy. So he made smart move of joining his enemy to kill enemy’s enemy. And that gave him a break and opportunity to grow his muscles. He is much interested in Legacy’s failure in this war which gives him much more time to build even stronger coalition since goons would be busy by killing Test and Brave first of all and FRT would have enough power to grow and kill any threat and secure his board until Imp is ready to come for FRT for revenge.

    July 30, 2021 at 12:58 AM
    • Garreth Vlox Deni'z von Meanace

      “Not sure about Imp folks trying to flirt with this guy.”

      At this point he is the only leader on papi’s side actually acting like a leader, and not just functioning as a propaganda mouth piece. After a year of vily, progod, dunk and now gobbins trying to sell their coalitions a bridge from ohio to france, seeing someone act like they have a pair of braincells to rub together is refreshing, if us pointing that out is flirting…. well ok.

      July 30, 2021 at 1:45 AM
      • Deni'z von Meanace Garreth Vlox

        Yep, flirting, with hope of what? That he’s finally swap the sides? Then it’s (flirting) should be done much earlier which i didn’t see happened much on INN before. I wouldn’t count his forces as PAPI due to the whole campaign his alliance looked like 3rd party. Unfortunately Mittens closed that door when declared – no agreement with papi members. Otherwise you could possible get FRT changed sides in the middle of war. But in the mean time Noraus is interested in both party to bleed as much as possible which gives him enough space and time to build a super bloc. Cause what is he doing now is basically the same what goons did prior to war.
        Looking at their tensions with Snuff escalated for the last months confirming that. I’m curious about his thoughts about that cause he can’t run 3 major offensive ops (anti Imp, AoM, Snuff) simultaneously cause it’s stretching his abilities.

        July 30, 2021 at 5:17 AM
        • Jeet_Kundo Deni'z von Meanace

          “I’m curious about his thoughts about that cause he can’t run 3 major offensive ops (anti Imp, AoM, Snuff) simultaneously cause it’s stretching his abilities.”

          Undoubtedly, he’s looking at a real threat versus a perceived threat in the current state of his empire, which is why he’s telegraphing that one way or the other, FRT is going to start attending to its own problems before they get out of control. I made the fall of Rome comparisons with regard to territory many times already: this will be all fine and good until the outermost territories rebel, while other territories are conquered by invaders, the empire too overextended to react with a meaningful response in a timely manner – biggest difference among others is that Rome wasn’t a clusterfuck of many Emperors all trying to share the throne.

          July 30, 2021 at 9:01 AM
      • chimpy Garreth Vlox

        I think both points of view have merit. He is clearly far more competent and intelligent than the PAPI clown circus at the top. I don’t think the Goons would be doing so well in this war if Noraus had been in charge from the start. A leader that competent you would want on your side. I think Noraus has more immediate fish to fry than Goons, but who knows what the future holds? At least if Goons end up fighting FRT in the future at least the absurd clown committee leadership element of this war will be gone.

        July 30, 2021 at 12:39 PM
    • Jeet_Kundo Deni'z von Meanace

      It’s respect if anything. He has poise, the rest have flamboyant bravado; if I were on the other end of this and had the option of who I would want calling the shots, I’d be picking the one that seems most capable of calling the shots without losing their composure. He’s presented his stance as I’d expect any leader should at this point, especially one that’s wanting to move on with their life instead of being beholden to a bunch of mutton heads with an ego: “whelp, this is it everyone, we’re going in and we’re going to give ‘em hell, history in the making and we’re going to be there to write it – win or lose.”

      July 30, 2021 at 8:54 AM
  • J Moravia

    “Goons have mastered defense.”
    Yeah, well, they’ve had over a year to get better at it while PAPI have been sitting around with their thumbs up their butts. Practice makes perfect, or something.

    July 30, 2021 at 1:51 AM
  • Elithiel en Gravonere

    I still think Snuffed Out are impressive. I’m glad they joined the imperium for a while. It got me able to work alongside them and see how they think. I was impressed on what I saw back then. Obviously, it was for a good time not a long time and ultimately they went their own way. However, I’d like to think we would back them in a fight due to our shared history. I think if Noraus does try and take on Snuffed Out, most of the lowsec groups will join Snuffed Out’s side to help them (besides their obvious enemies). That said, we may be busy with our own mopping up operations with a new offensive against Legacy coalition. Volta, Toilet Paper, AoM and Snuffed Out will likely band together into a coalition to fight WinterCo no doubt.

    Noraus is a very shrewd leader and I respect him. His fleet commanders aren’t that great but they have the numbers to make up for it and the isk. It is rare I have much respect for an enemy leader. Most of them are proven incompetent. But Noraus definitely has my attention and eyes watching his moves. Having spent a LOT of time in his space, I got to see how they think and work. They’re similar in some ways to us but also very different in their mentality. Definitely, I have them on the ‘ones to watch’ list.

    August 2, 2021 at 9:20 AM