Those Who Fail to Learn from History . . .

2020-10-26

Art by AnuranonthecoucH

This is not the first time that the Imperium has been massively outnumbered in a war. The last time this happened was during the Casino War back in March of 2016.

In many respects, the Imperium in 2016 was a very different beast from what it is today. The most striking difference revolves around the geographical footprint they had then and the organizational structure of the Imperium in regard to member alliances. In 2016 the Imperium owned vast swathes of space, with member alliances often controlling at least one region. The Imperium was still riding high on its previous successes in the Fountain War, followed by the Halloween War. With hubris, a book deal, yachts and a Viceroy program, the Imperium was not endearing itself to the greater nullsec community.

The Mittani was actively pushing his high-dollar media empire and was looking to take part in the creation of a book that exalted the many accomplishments of the Imperium. Stories were bandied about regarding The Mittani’s luxurious lifestyle, complete with partying and yachts. At that point the Imperium was bored with the state of peace that existed at that time. This gave rise to the Imperium’s Viceroy program, which was used as a mechanism to annoy lowsec residents.

At that time CCP was also unhappy with the current state of gameplay and released some massive changes that greatly impacted nullsec. Jump fatigue came into gameplay and “Fozzie Sov” was just coming online. So-called Fozzie Sov was an “engaging” form of gameplay used to determine the fate of IHubs and sov within nullsec, involving battles over event nodes that were spawned and required a special hacking beam to “complete.” The numerous enemies of the Imperium also had access to the Real Money Trading ISK that would be used to fund The Casino War. The stage was set for the fall of the Imperium.

Fall It Did

With the perfect storm building against the Imperium, the Money Badger Coalition (MBC) was formed with the intent of removing the Imperium from nullsec. The MBC was headed by PanFam (PL, NC) but had dozens of other alliances also affiliated. This war spawned the largest blue donut ever seen at that time, with the participants funded by casino ISK. The MBC combatants literally had nothing to lose in that war and they set as their goal the destruction of the Imperium.

The very deliberate and public betrayal of the Imperium by Co2 was a defining point in The Casino War. The Imperium had attempted to assist Co2 in every way. They showed Co2 that their finance director was stealing from them. But, the Co2 leader, GigX, always wanted more and refused to believe that he was being robbed. So, GigX authorized negotiations with the MBC many months before The Casino War even started, approved a deal to defect once the war was underway. At this point, the Imperium made the decision to re-stage to Saranen.

The Imperium was further weakened by the departure of fair weather friends. Over the years, the Imperium had become a beacon of civilization and wealth. These benefits attracted many, but not all groups were fit for war when it broke out. Their departure was not unexpected, but served to further assault the morale of those willing to remain loyal to the Imperium. Vastly outnumbered and with numbers continuing to fall, the Imperium fought against MBC, which brought every tool to bear. One such tool was the resurrection of an old Goonswarm CEO to try and appeal to all “true goons” in order to lure them away from the Imperium, a venture that ultimately failed so hard that former members of “Ten Dollar Bond” found themselves in PL. That CEO was Darius Johnson, who coined the phrase “We are not here to ruin the game; we are here to ruin your game,” which brought him fame and ignominy.

Once war began, region after region fell out of Imperial control. The Imperium re-staged to the comparative safety offered by lowsec in the system of Saranen in an attempt to weather the storm. Those days felt dark for the Imperium. Abandoned and betrayed, with the braying masses calling for their destruction, the Imperium’s fate seemed all but certain.

To say the Imperium lacked fight during those times would be disingenuous. The coalition put up a spirited defense, utilizing the limited tools available at the time, which often greatly angered the invading MBC. Many within the Imperium would also argue that this was some of the best online gaming they have ever had the chance to experience. It was incredible to fight battles at such uneven odds, and the Imperium did so frequently.

By July 2016, the Imperium had lost all sov in nullsec. The leadership of the Imperium then made the decision to vacate the north and concede defeat. Most of the Money Badger Coalition was happy to see that happen, especially as the ISK casino money was running out. The MBC could declare victory, knowing that they had indeed thrown the Imperium out of nullsec. The only alliance that looked to pursue the Imperium south was Test, under the direction of ProGodLegend (PGL). Fortunately for the Imperium, PGL has a very particular track record of failure, so the threat offered by Test was short lived and ineffective.

Fool Me Once

In rebuilding, the Imperium vowed to learn well from the hard-won lessons of The Casino War. The same mistakes would not easily be repeated. Delve would become a fortress and leadership revisited the mechanisms of internal organization regarding how the Imperium worked. The Imperium of today always knew that this day would come, when invading forces would again be amassed in order to prevent the Imperium from further interfering with their schemes.

Back in 2016 I wrote the following when Co2 were evicted from Tribute. It may seem familiar and current:

“The PamFam are more brazen now than ever with their power. There is not even a hint at hiding the vast control that they have in Eve Online. Leaders are obviously involved in renting schemes and evidence of working relationships are all too evident. Almost three-quarters of null sec is arguably under their control. Wormhole space is completely theirs and unassailable. With their involvement in the New Eden Trading Network, you can even say that they are encroaching on low-sec space with hi-sec probably not far behind. For all intents and purposes, it looks as if BoB has risen again.”

This current planned extermination of the Imperium has an extra twist. It is being led by Test Alliance Please Ignore: The very same Test that was nurtured by the Imperium many years ago; the same Test that broke a deal that started the Fountain War – a deal that was considered mutually beneficial until PanFam whispered sweet words of “strong independent alliance” into the ears of the fickle Test leadership; the same Test that the Imperium has saved time and time again over the years.

War of Words

Narratives are crucial in times of war. The Imperium has been defiant and consistent in theirs: survive and make it as bloody as possible. This has been unchanging and now has been demonstrated many times over on the field of battle. Older members of the Imperium have heard the inane rantings of their enemies over the years. PAPI leadership accuses the Imperium of breaking deals, treating their allies badly, or a myriad of other imagined crimes. But of late the PAPI narrative seems to be very hard to pin down.

Here are some recent narrative strands:

  • PAPI says Goons have to be exterminated from the game to save the game.
  • PAPI says they intend to defeat Goons as slowly and as painfully as possible.
  • PAPI drops Keepstars, claiming all failed attempts to online a KS fit in with the grand design of the “ISK” war, depleting Imperium economic resources.
  • PAPI successfully onlines a Keepstar and notes that was always the goal.
  • PAPI brings attention to the results of the MER in Delve, but ignores results in other regions of New Eden.
  • PAPI declare themselves to be true warriors, while actually being the blobbing blue donut yet again.

But all of this history is now moot: “All that’s left to do is burn it all down,” said ProGodLegend on October 22, 2020 in the Legacy War Update. It would seem that PAPI leadership now declares that the only war objective left is to clean up a pacified and broken Delve.

Even so-called neutral commentators try to press home images of the Imperium collapsing. Some claim corporations are abandoning the Imperium, when the reality is quite different. Many of those currently aligned against the Imperium were former members and the assets seen jumping to the new PAPI Keepstar in NPC Delve represent the extraction of assets of these former members. But such simple deductions seem out of reach for those who profess to be seeking “truth.” Perhaps they are too busy contemplating which Pay2Win mechanic should be the basis of their next CSM campaign.

The End of the Beginning

With their beachhead now secured by the valiant efforts of William Chen, PAPI will embark on the next phase of their war of extermination. This is likely to follow a pattern of risk aversion that has already been well demonstrated over previous months. PAPI forces are likely to focus their efforts on eroding key infrastructure of the Imperium in the form of iHubs, Ansiblex jump gates, and cyno jammers. This strategy is designed to keep PAPI forces as safe as possible while they press forward their attack into Delve.

The leader of the Imperium, The Mittani, has already stated that the Imperium will fight every fight that they can until it is pushed back to the untameable systems of NPC Delve. The Mittani has vowed to continue the fight no matter the cost; the massive outlay in ships and ISK in the recent weeks shows that vow has teeth.

Already in this war we have seen the stuff of legends. Vastly outnumbered and outgunned, the Imperium achieved victory in the largest ever online gaming battle. Further, thousands witnessed the “Ride Into Valhalla” by the daring Imperium titan pilots. Even as PAPI boasts over 100,000 characters more than the Imperium, the defenders remain steadfast in Delve.

No matter which side you are on, or want to be on, there is still time to say “I was there.”

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Comments

  • Menaiya

    To Truly defeat an enemy, you must destroy the very essence of that enemy. Looking around as I do, I see no signs of anyone giving up. Despite being outnumbered badly in many fights, and as frustrating it can be at times, its even more fun when you win at those odds.

    Get this very clear Pandemic Legion, Pandemic Horde, Test Alliance, Evictus, Fraternity, Razor Alliance, Brave Newbies and all the other little cockleburs in their socks:
    You will never be able to destroy Goonswarm. If anything, you are forging us as a blacksmith forges steel. You will probably regret it when your done.

    Moomin, once again another great article. Having been on the MBC Side of the war in 2016, I learned that most of the people that were the aggressors there didn’t give a damn about their line members. I have never been in a group as generous, as organized as Goonswarm is. Not just the community in Karmafleet for me, but in general listening to Brisc’s “Fountain Frank” is just a hoot amongst other awesome personalities. (Staring at you Broodin, beware the Pancake cat).

    My final bit about this whole war: Fraternity has a long and storied history of betrayal on Serenity by other names. Their scouting actions on their own allies ought to be a concern for the blue donut, but hey, while we are a fighting this war. What are they doing to their hinterlands? I would love to see Test, PL, PH, all lose their space through hubris because they will indeed be backstabbed usually at the best dramatic moment.

    See you all on the battlefield.

    In a war like this, keep your friends close and enemies closer.

    October 26, 2020 at 12:21 PM
    • Moomin Amatin Menaiya

      Thank you for your kind words dear and I am glad that you, just like myself, found salvation in the glory that is The Imperium.

      I think you are right, many in PAPI are failing to realise that they are not just fighting this war, but they are fighting at least the next also. The impact of the changes from CCP has still yet to be fully realised.

      October 26, 2020 at 10:59 PM
    • William Doe Menaiya

      I would love to see the surprised Pikachu face by PanFam when the same people they basically allowed renter space and protected in Fraternity decide they’ve accrued enough wealth with their botting empire; it’s time to wreck their neighbors and allies in PanFam and take over their holdings.

      It may not happen soon, may not even happen for years. But who’s to stop them? I don’t think CCP gives two shits as people have reported countless bots and alts of FRAT players with practically no effect.

      October 27, 2020 at 10:37 AM
  • Simon Chui

    On the topic of narratives, I think it’s useful to differentiate between different target audiences. Sometimes people tell lies to mess with their enemies, and other times people lie to themselves so they feel better. A lot of the hypocrisy comes down to telling different stories to different people. Let me stop there, before I start naming names and spoiling plans, but it’s not hard to look at each statement and see who it’s meant to influence.

    October 26, 2020 at 1:39 PM
    • Rammel Kas Simon Chui

      You mean like Dunk Dinkle’s “Not a SOTA” or Riggleman’s statements? Or anything from Vily? They all do it if you pick them apart. Quite often they’ll try to assign their guys some aspirational-but-unrealistic attribute, then project the worst they’ve encountered personally on the other faction. One needs to ask however where they glean their information from. Since it’s very clear their spy rings do not in point of fact live on any of the clearing floors for actual work. So where do they get these village rumors or larger than life bad guys? Makes you think about what comes after, one way or another doesn’t it?

      October 26, 2020 at 2:09 PM
      • Simon Chui Rammel Kas

        Lying to their own people is ultimately self-defeating. it might boost morale in the short term, but at some point they’ll run into reality and they’ll be surprised by it. I didn’t want to name names because calling them out on it might actually save them from that future big mistake, whereas giving them more rope to hang themselves might screw them the hardest. Anyway, they’ll probably think this is just more goon spin, and carry on as before.

        October 26, 2020 at 9:40 PM
        • Menaiya Simon Chui

          The problem with lying to people in general as you mentioned being self-defeating is that you have to continually prop up that lie. Regardless, the key movement factor in any war is morale. Many people in the imperium keep fighting simply because to be honest its rather nice having the enemies come to us these days too. SRP is still going strong. We have content all the time. What else do you expect from EVE Online. Half of this war would be even more fun if the sovereignty part was taken out.

          That or we could play some high stakes Texas Holdem?

          October 26, 2020 at 9:46 PM
  • Guilford Australis

    I think both sides are repeating history.

    PanFam is just doing its periodic revival of the old hatreds – “We’re going to kill ’em for good this time boys, hurr durr!” TEST is betraying an ally and shitting the bed loudly and frequently, which is par for them.

    The Imperium, meanwhile, is paying the price for doing what we said we’d never do again after the Casino War. We said we were going to consolidate in Delve – the whole coalition under one roof. No more sprawl. But… INIT wanted its own space, so they moved out into Fountain. GSF wanted to secure “fake Querious,” which is a spine of that region that runs right through Delve. Then we said, why not take more of Querious? And we did. Last, we colonized the entire region of Period Basis to broker out to renters (something we’ve always mocked PanFam for doing).

    But the current situation is nothing like 2016. The Casino War sucked infinitely worse for the CFC than the current slow-motion pseudo-war does for The Imperium. Morale was terrible, alliances and corporations were leaving left and right, Goonswarm was hemorrhaging members, and strategic objectives were lost constantly and crushingly. So far in this war, PAPI has accomplished ONE strategic objective in four and a half months – anchoring a Keepstar in Delve.

    Despite some historical parallels, the circumstances and progress of this war do not mirror the Casino War at all. I don’t think PAPI and the Reddit Mouth-Breather Brigade realize quite how much they’re beclowning themselves (and setting themselves up for future mockery) by calling it “World War Bee II.”

    October 26, 2020 at 2:49 PM
    • George Ewing Guilford Australis

      Beclowning 🙂

      October 26, 2020 at 9:54 PM
      • Gray Doc George Ewing

        I was going to mention myself how much I enjoyed that very phrase! It’s a pleasure to read posts written by people who care about words and actually have fun showing off little snippets like “beclowning.”

        October 26, 2020 at 10:34 PM
  • theseconddavid

    Where is the story about John Hartley yanking rigs and aborting a couple trillion in supers?

    October 26, 2020 at 6:08 PM
    • Moomin Amatin theseconddavid

      No idea. I wrote this about 4 days ago. Maybe someone will write about it, perhaps yourself. But to be honest I am not sure how someone being a dumb in this instance is worth a story. This stuff happens all the time. I look forward to your submission.

      October 26, 2020 at 10:55 PM
    • George Ewing theseconddavid

      Where is the story of a structure, previously announced as going offline, that went offline? No idea. Where should it be?

      October 27, 2020 at 11:14 AM
  • Garreth Vlox

    I’m reminded of my favorite General Mattis quote:
    “Second, no war is over until the enemy says it’s over. We may think it over, we may declare it over, but in fact, the enemy gets a vote, as we’re often saying in the military.”
    Progod and Villy would do well to remember this.

    October 26, 2020 at 8:36 PM
    • Moomin Amatin Garreth Vlox

      For some The Casino War rages on. But shhhh about that – heh.

      October 26, 2020 at 10:56 PM
  • Andy Preston

    As always it’s like reading about an alternative universe… oh wait. Looking at the comments below is no different to looking at PAPI comments. A war of two sides. Sure, PAPI said they’d remove goons from the game and moomin often sits weirdly in YZ9 like a stalker, berating everyone for hours in local chat about how awful this is.
    Yet we have plenty of clips of Mittani saying truly awful things too – like a divorcee being nudged towards suicide etc. And how funny that is. I can freely admit that there are a bag load of complete idiots on PAPIs side that spew ridiculous nonsense. Villy, progod etc etc. But I guess it’s to keep people going and motivate them to fight on. Who knows. 90% of players are just there to pvp in a game.
    So, could you guys admit that Mittani is no better, and saying absolute rubbish to achieve the same goals. His “shows” are moronic and mostly why people dislike goons in the fits place. Rightly or wrongly.
    Or that Moomin sits in YZ9 spouting crap at people in local chat for hours on end for the same reason. I mean, dude, that’s fucking weird. You do know this game isn’t real right? Oddest behaviour I have seen since returning to eve, and that’s saying something.

    October 28, 2020 at 11:08 AM
    • Moomin Amatin Andy Preston

      Thank you for giving us such an insight into you.

      Mittens did some stuff that was wrong and he was a moron for doing it. His saving grace is that he looked to repair the damage. He gave away his stuff. He resigned from the CSM. He accepted the ban from CCP. All in a matter of days after the event. He has then since eaten shit about this for the last 8 years. Now to be honest I do not care if that upsets Mittens at all. But what I do find very interesting is that some people who cannot be bothered to even look up the events bring this matter up at every opportunity. So tell me dear, do you do this for justice that has not only been done but seen to be done? Or do you do it for your own pleasure? Do you think that the person Mittens tried to hurt thanks you every time you bring this up?

      I look forward to your response but I do hope you can muster something more than chirlish insults.

      October 29, 2020 at 2:34 AM
      • Andy Preston Moomin Amatin

        Well they weren’t churlish insults, but if you’ve taken them that way that’s your prerogative obviously. What “mittens” did was an example, and obviously not the entirety of him or everything he’s ever done. But I think I personally would never do something like that – so while you think my post gave some insight into me, that very much did so about him. And I think his videos shown that personality hasn’t really changed a great deal – he probably just hides the horrific comments a whole lot more.
        But as I said, this is both sides. They’re all nobs. If I could pull on examples for the papi side I would do, I’m sure you can. The vehement need to remove goons from the game is idiotic. Remove them from Delve as part of the game? Sure! Get rid of them out of the game? What on earth for..?
        But as I said, the actual player base is the same on each side. I’ve flown with goons when I was in razor. Their fleets, chat and comms were identical to Test, PH and brave comms and chat in every way.
        I think the players have some responsibility for cheering these idiots along – similarly to how cowards in a schoolyard fight cheer and push the protagonists.
        With regards to my comments about you – I’m not going to retract or change that. Dude, it is weird to sit cloaked in local and rant at the locals for hours. If you don’t know that, probably not much I can say. But perspective may well be missing…If you’re roleplaying and in a character, sure.. whatever flicks your switch. If you’re doing it for any other reason then dear god.
        I don’t see anything wrong with funny memes, a few jibes during fleet fights, rivalry on forums about which side is better and why etc. Whatever. It’s fun. But this ridiculous level of hatred, evil Bad boy roleplay and personal levels of anger are bizarre.
        There are monumental levels of “get a fucking life” going on currently.

        October 29, 2020 at 8:17 AM
        • Moomin Amatin Andy Preston

          You typed a lot of words and yet failed to answer any of the simple three questions I had for you.

          Here they are again:

          So tell me dear, do you do this for justice that has not only been done but seen to be done?
          Or do you do it for your own pleasure?
          Do you think that the person Mittens tried to hurt thanks you every time you bring this up?

          It is most telling when someone is asked some very simple questions and they refuse to answer.

          October 29, 2020 at 9:40 AM
          • Andy Preston Moomin Amatin

            Eugh, what an empty reply. So you throw in a couple of pointless questions in the middle of a reply, that for all intents and purposes could be seen as rhetorical, and that’s it… unless I specifically address your questions I’m not personally living up to your high expectations as a forum warrior.

            I covered it in my reply, if you read carefully. I said it was just an example of the type of person he is, nothing more. If you can’t read between the lines that’s your issue mate.

            If you need a black and white response, no it’s not for personal pleasure (which is a fucking odd question), and I don’t think the person he hurt will see my comment on a random webpage, and if he does I’m pretty sure neither you nor I have any insight into whether all this time later he will give a shit or not. And it’s not for justice, why on earth would it be. I don’t know him, it was years ago, don’t be a moron.

            Let me do a you; I notice in your empty reply you literally ignored everything I wrote because it was probably too close to the truth for you. And in both replies you’ve carefully avoided the part about you and your bizarre behaviour. I do hope that you are able to actually respond to these parts my dearest and address them with something vaguely resembling maturity. It’s incredibly telling when someone repeats what we both know are utterly pointless questions in a bid to avoid talking about things and tries to behave like some sort of verbose lawyer.

            My response was pretty open, honest and truthful. Let’s see if you manage the same. I’m guessing you won’t. I think you’ll try to pick holes in my reply or just generally be a pointlessly argumentative forum warrior.

            October 29, 2020 at 10:09 AM
          • Andy Preston Andy Preston

            Dya know what. Forget it dude. This is high up on the wasting my time scale. Moving on.

            October 29, 2020 at 10:54 AM
          • Moomin Amatin Andy Preston

            As people tend to edit and delete things I will leave this right here.

            First Comment of Andy Preston:
            “As always it’s like reading about an alternative universe… oh wait. Looking at the comments below is no different to looking at PAPI comments. A war of two sides. We have PAPI who said they’d remove goons from the game on one side and then random people like moomin who often sits weirdly in YZ9 like a stalker, berating everyone for hours in local chat about how awful this is.
            We have plenty of clips of Mittani saying truly awful things – like a divorcee being nudged towards suicide etc. And how funny that is. Yet none of the goons see issue with what a pleb he is.
            I can freely admit that there are a bag load of complete idiots on PAPIs side that spew ridiculous nonsense. Villy, progod etc etc. Which I guess it’s to keep people going and motivate them to fight on. Who knows. 90% of players are just there to pvp in a game.
            So, could you guys admit that Mittani is no better, and saying absolute rubbish to achieve the same goals. His “shows” are moronic and mostly why people dislike goons in the first place. Rightly or wrongly. I can imagine plenty of goons think so but don’t say.
            Or that Moomin sitting in YZ9 spouting crap at people in local chat for hours on end is bizarre. I mean, dude, that’s fucking weird. You do know this game isn’t real right? Oddest behaviour I have seen since returning to eve, and that’s saying something.
            Maybe… just maybe… the player base itself who just turns up to shoot things, on both sides, are all the same and actually pretty cool guys. And everyone in leadership, on both sides – including you Moomin, “my dear” – are absolute fruit loops who need a reality check…? It seems things like this bring all the whack jobs out of their closets to roleplay.”

            Second comment of Andy Preston:
            “Well they weren’t churlish insults, but if you’ve taken them that way that’s your prerogative obviously. What “mittens” did was an example, and obviously not the entirety of him or everything he’s ever done. But I think I personally would never do something like that – so while you think my post gave some insight into me, that very much did so about him. And I think his videos shown that personality hasn’t really changed a great deal – he probably just hides the horrific comments a whole lot more.
            But as I said, this is both sides. They’re all nobs. If I could pull on examples for the papi side I would do, I’m sure you can. The vehement need to remove goons from the game is idiotic. Remove them from Delve as part of the game? Sure! Get rid of them out of the game? What on earth for..?

            Third Comment of Andy Preston:
            “Eugh, what an empty reply. So you throw in a couple of pointless questions in the middle of a reply, that for all intents and purposes could be seen as rhetorical, and that’s it… unless I specifically address your questions I’m not personally living up to your high expectations as a forum warrior.

            I covered it in my reply, if you read carefully. I said it was just an example of the type of person he is, nothing more. If you can’t read between the lines that’s your issue mate.

            If you need a black and white response, no it’s not for personal pleasure (which is a fucking odd question), and I don’t think the person he hurt will see my comment on a random webpage, and if he does I’m pretty sure neither you nor I have any insight into whether all this time later he will give a shit or not. And it’s not for justice, why on earth would it be. I don’t know him, it was years ago, don’t be a moron.

            Let me do a you; I notice in your empty reply you literally ignored everything I wrote because it was probably too close to the truth for you. And in both replies you’ve carefully avoided the part about you and your bizarre behaviour. I do hope that you are able to actually respond to these parts my dearest and address them with something vaguely resembling maturity. It’s incredibly telling when someone repeats what we both know are utterly pointless questions in a bid to avoid talking about things and tries to behave like some sort of verbose lawyer.

            My response was pretty open, honest and truthful. Let’s see if you manage the same. I’m guessing you won’t. I think you’ll try to pick holes in my reply or just generally be a pointlessly argumentative forum warrior.”
            But as I said, the actual player base is the same on each side. I’ve flown with goons when I was in razor. Their fleets, chat and comms were identical to Test, PH and brave comms and chat in every way.
            I think the players have some responsibility for cheering these idiots along – similarly to how cowards in a schoolyard fight cheer and push the protagonists.
            With regards to my comments about you – I’m not going to retract or change that. Dude, it is weird to sit cloaked in local and rant at the locals for hours. If you don’t know that, probably not much I can say. But perspective may well be missing…If you’re roleplaying and in a character, sure.. whatever flicks your switch. If you’re doing it for any other reason then dear god.
            I don’t see anything wrong with funny memes, a few jibes during fleet fights, rivalry on forums about which side is better and why etc. Whatever. It’s fun. But this ridiculous level of hatred, evil Bad boy roleplay and personal levels of anger are bizarre.
            There are monumental levels of “get a fucking life” going on currently.”

            October 29, 2020 at 11:31 AM
          • Moomin Amatin Andy Preston

            You start out with the obvious and swiftly move into ad hominems and “wizard hat” territory. I asked you some very simple questions about “wizard hat” that you then refused initially to answer. You finish off by stating that I am “fruit loops” and in need of a “reality check”. These are apparently not churlish insults, at least according to you. You then later double down on your “insights” into my mental stability. Your initial comment could have been summed up as “both sides spin and I really don’t like it because I think we are the same”. Weirdly though it took you many more words.

            You then go on to feebly admit that you did not know the details about the “wizard hat” incident and that it was also a super long time ago. You say you do not mention the “wizard hat” incident for pleasure but all of the words you have typed say something different to me. But there again, you have stated I am suffering from a mental illness. By the way are you qualified to make such a statement?

            As for “forget it dude”, I think it is for the best. If you want to shit on Mittens then there is plenty of material every single week on the Meta Show. It is the most popular show in New Eden.

            October 29, 2020 at 11:32 AM
          • Andy Preston Moomin Amatin

            – You said “wizard hat” far too many times.
            – You did exactly what I said you’d do in your reply – tadaaa what a surprise, thank you for living down to my expectations
            – Your reply has literally consisted of stating what I’ve done. Gratz on that one – I think people can read for themselves.
            – My comments have meant so much to you that you actually copied them and numbered for posterity…and you claim you’re actually not a fruit loop.
            – You’ve still not explained why you sit in local berating people for hours – despite me asking numerous times my dear – come on, you can do it Moooomin, you can do it..!
            -I didn’t refuse to answer – I covered it in my response as already stated – refusal, such a wrong word to use, so wrong.
            – Does it matter whether I’m qualified or not if its my opinion..? Is that the only way anyone can make a statement on a forum, by showing you their qualifications? Are you qualified? You said all the words I typed say something different to you… I’m not sure you’re qualified to make those assumptions…
            – Where did I say I had no idea on the details of the incident?
            – Where did I say it was, “A super long time ago” – I stated a fact that it was a few years ago.
            – What’s next, picking apart grammar and spellings and telling me I must be really angry? I know what you will do, you’ll point out that I said I was moving on. 😉 go on, be predictable.
            – You’ve quickly fallen away from what you probably think are smooth replies to having a little rant about what I’ve said. Dear oh dear.
            – Are you stating that his show is the most popular one in New Eden for a reason? Is it so I can be all, “oh god, I’m saying this guy is a twat but…but… everyone watches him being a twat.. I wish I was being a twat on screen too…”

            Come on Mooms – you can do better than this – it’s boring and you’re breaking character as well, we can’t be having that can we.

            October 29, 2020 at 12:00 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Andy Preston

            “Dya know what. Forget it dude. This is high up on the wasting my time scale. Moving on.” and then proceeds to write yet more words on why they are right. Again avoiding questions along the way. Talk about spin and toxicity.

            Read your first comment and think about how it relates to this article. Then think about my very eloquent summary of your rather longer comment. That could have been it. You could have been done with “your point”.

            But no, you choose to continue to state that I am suffering from a mental illness. Your qualificatiosn? Seemingly none. Yeah you got me there, you definately have the higher moral ground – lol.

            October 29, 2020 at 1:36 PM
          • Andy Preston Moomin Amatin

            Hey hey, didn’t I say that’s how you’d respond. But you’re not answering my question either moooomin?

            October 29, 2020 at 1:45 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Andy Preston

            Not how this is going to work now dear. You see you have made repeated claims as to the state of my mental health. Now just imagine that Mittens had done the same to you. What level of impotent rage would you have at that? But for you to do that to me is fine in your world. If that sits well with you then there is no question I could ever answer that would make you happy. But know this dear, I forgive you.

            October 29, 2020 at 1:54 PM
          • Andy Preston Moomin Amatin

            Ah nice, you know how random and odd it is and this is your exit strategy because..dun dun duuuuuuun… you can’t explain it. Love it. You go girl. “I’m gonna pretend you’re verbally abusing me and say it’s the same as trying to get someone to kill themselves”. And hey you’re back in character again. Good job 😁
            Not gonna work.

            October 29, 2020 at 2:29 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Andy Preston

            You did write these things about me, yes?

            “random people like moomin who often sits weirdly in YZ9 like a stalker”
            “that’s fucking weird”
            “Oddest behaviour I have seen since returning to eve, and that’s saying something.”
            “including you Moomin, “my dear” – are absolute fruit loops who need a reality check…? It seems things like this bring all the whack jobs out of their closets to roleplay.”
            “With regards to my comments about you – I’m not going to retract or change that”
            “Does it matter whether I’m qualified or not if its my opinion..?”

            And this sits fine with you? And it is obvious that it does. You are happy to berate others for the very thing you are doing and you see no problem with it. You my dear are the funniest.

            October 29, 2020 at 5:50 PM
          • Andy Preston Moomin Amatin

            Not nice when the shoes on the other foot is it 😉
            Enjoy.

            October 29, 2020 at 6:13 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Andy Preston

            It is wonderful when someone exposes their true nature. You have grown through this experience. You went from pretending to hold the higher moral ground to revelling in the thought of someone suffering at your words. Very classy of you.

            October 29, 2020 at 6:16 PM
          • Andy Preston Moomin Amatin

            Or just played you like a fiddle. ✌️ You choose.

            October 29, 2020 at 6:17 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Andy Preston

            Yeah, you just played me into revealing what you are. Are you part of the PAPI invasion planning team?

            October 29, 2020 at 6:22 PM
          • Andy Preston Moomin Amatin

            Something to think about next time you’re being a twat in local to everyone for hours on end – revealing who you are. Over and out.

            October 29, 2020 at 6:42 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Andy Preston

            “Something to think about next time you’re being a twat in local to everyone for hours on end – revealing who you are. Over and out.”

            I suspect that played out a lot better in your head than it does in reality.

            October 29, 2020 at 6:54 PM