Scuffle in Perimeter: PanFam vs The Imperium


Yes you heard correctly, Perimeter

Around 08:30 on August 15, The Imperium sent out a fleet. Unusually this fleet was off to a place where The Imperium has rarely been seen in numbers, with the exception of a once a year mating event. That event being, of course, the fabulous Burn Jita excursion.

As you would expect hisec is far from a natural environment for The Imperium. So the trip over revealed those with dubious histories. This was likely only agitated with battles occurring in lowsec where the pilots criminal status would take a hit.

The Imperium fleet landed in the system of Perimeter where their target was revealed. It was to be the second timer of the PH trading Citadel named “Perimeter – Safe Trade Hub – Panfam”. In short order, The Imperium set about shooting the citadel which was already trying to repair.

It was not many minutes after that PanFam Machariels were reported and the prospects of a battle increased greatly. After landing in the safety of the citadel the PanFam fleet got into position to engage the hostile fleet from The Imperium.

Local hovered around 500 although many were innocent bystanders or opportunists looking to scoop a bit of loot.

The PanFam not only brought superior numbers but also the superior doctrine in the form of Macherials. These numbers were bolstered very slightly with Tempest and Typhoon class battleships.

The two fleets slugged it out for well over 10 minutes with no TiDi being present. Surprisingly the battleships from both sides seemed to be traded in favour of The Imperium. Although this will need to be reviewed once all the data is in.

The Citadel was still being fired upon by the drones from The Imperium fleet, its armour creeping ever downwards. With a few percent remaining all fire from The Imperium’s remaining ships were tasked with shooting the Citadel. Once it was confirmed that the citadel had yet again been reinforced The Imperium’s fleet warped off.

It would seem that without the safety net of being able to use Titans and Super Carriers that the performance of the PanFam is greatly diminished. But I am sure that for around half of those involved this was a “good fight”.

The PH Citadel will be ready to shoot again for its final timer Monday morning. It is expected that there will be even more interest given the significance of this citadel to PanFam. It is also very important to note that the trade hub for the PanFam Citadel has now been turned off. So if you are thinking of doing business from PanFam citadels or their associates then you should possibly exercise caution.

The final bill here is less than impressive, as are the number of combatants. But this was considered to be such an unusual engagement that it would be wrong to not report on it. It is very rare to see such engagements conducted in hisec with so many pilots. As always when reporting such encounters so soon after the event the Battle Report is still being updated. The initial reports have The Imperium coming out well on top. Not only did they complete the strategic objective but they also won the engagement by every other metric likely to be applied.

In this Battle Report, we have The Imperium losing just under 3 billion and the PanFam losing 11.5 billion. This BR should be taken with a pinch of salt though, which you can likely find in great quantity on Reddit.

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  • Aegrum

    Holy shit I’m dizzy from the spin. Even the BR report you linked yourself doesn’t support your narrative. CONDI lost 53 of the 75 fielded Typhoons, PanFam lost 35 of the 88 Machariels. Total losses 15b to 19b. Yea, Goons won the overall objective, but not without losing the majority of their fleet…

    August 15, 2017 at 6:24 PM
    • Rhivre Aegrum

      At the time of submitting the numbers were accurate. It is editorial (i.e. mine) fault that i didnt update them. And, as Moomin writes in his article:
      `” As always when reporting such encounters so soon after the event the Battle Report is still being updated. The initial reports have The Imperium coming out well on top. “

      August 15, 2017 at 6:29 PM
      • Aegrum Rhivre

        How is that even remotely on top? GSF lost more of their DPS fleet, PanFam lost frigates… Just because they flew a blingier ship doesn’t mean they “lost”. Isk isn’t everything.

        Also you flagged this as “news” not “editorial”. Get your buckets straight, Fox News.

        August 15, 2017 at 6:37 PM
        • You don’t like Goons winning the objective or the ISK war, so what metric would you like to go with then?

          August 15, 2017 at 6:40 PM
          • I already said PanFam lost the objective. But I take issue with “It would seem that without the safety net of being able to use Titans and Super Carriers that the performance of the PanFam is greatly diminished.” when Goons lost a larger overall percent of their main DPS fleet. It’s some next level spin.

            August 15, 2017 at 6:42 PM
          • Rhivre Aegrum

            So the metric is “Whoever gets out with the most part of their DPS fleet wins”?

            August 15, 2017 at 6:43 PM
          • Aegrum Rhivre

            Again, already said PanFam “lost”. The editorial “spin” about PanFam being worthless w/out Titans and Supers is what I’m taking issue with, when both sides had decent losses (BS numbers for GSF, Isk for PanFam).

            August 15, 2017 at 6:45 PM
          • Orson Brawl Aegrum

            Who cares how many battleships they lost. The isk is what matters for replacing losses. No one else is using your metric. When one side wins the objective AND the isk war that is a definitive win. Unless you think this is a pyrrhic victory and these losses are unsustainable for goons.

            August 15, 2017 at 7:28 PM
          • waltari Orson Brawl

            Objective won, fleet fight lost as iam quite sure that nobody from the parties involved, that includes goons, gives two shits about isk or replacing ships.

            August 15, 2017 at 9:50 PM
          • Aegrum Orson Brawl

            Once again, let me repeat myself, my qualm is with the spin, and the ignoring of factual, verifiable information. The “news” article makes it sound like GSF crushed PanFam, when the total ship losses on both sides (in numbers) were roughly equivalent. Yes PanFam lost the objective, and the isk war. But it was hardly a beating. This line for example “Surprisingly the battleships from both sides seemed to be traded in favour of The Imperium.” Based on what? GSF lost 53 of 75 BS (71%), PanFram 35 of 88 (40%). Yea the 38 were more expensive, so is that considered “favorable trading”? I’d argue not.

            Plus, on top of that, it’s been nearly 12 hours since the fight and the numbers still haven’t been updated to reflect reality. Anyone reading this article today has gotten a complete propaganda piece not based in reality, which goes back to my earlier statement: If you want people to take Imperium News Network seriously you need to report events factually.

            August 15, 2017 at 9:50 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Aegrum

            Did The Imperium win the objective? – Yes.
            Did The Imperium win the ISK war? – Yes.
            Did The Imperium bring the lesser doctrine? – Yes.
            Did the PanFam not use capitals? – Yes.
            Did I write that this piece was very hot off the press and would require some attention later? – Yes.

            Seems I have hit upon a few facts at least.

            August 16, 2017 at 4:30 AM
          • Erick Asmock Moomin Amatin

            We had to build a dam to stop his tears from flooding Johnstown again.

            August 16, 2017 at 10:14 PM
          • Maybe you should go read the EN24 article that will likely come out four days after nobody cares anymore. And we make more money than PanFam, so flushing some fleets to hurt “Elite PvP” efficiencies is more than a win. Maybe one day the Hordelings will wake up and realize they will be serfs forever.

            August 16, 2017 at 1:36 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Aegrum

            The Imperium won with a “lesser” doctrine while being outnumbered. If PanFam is so good then they would have won comfortably surely?

            August 15, 2017 at 8:05 PM
          • Mintaki Moomin Amatin

            Moomin, you’re insane bud. I don’t know how to keep it together when you argue with people who simply cannot be convinced of anything other than their own opinions, regardless of clarifying statements or facts proven through links to BRs, stats, or otherwise (and not just this article either).

            The cup is already full, you’re not adding anything by pouring more into that overloaded hole feeder… I do still love seeing the replies though!

            August 16, 2017 at 1:41 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Mintaki

            It is actually remarkably easy to be honest. What I do is stick to what was said/written and go from there. I am generally careful to express the difference between my own opinion and “facts”. I should note that I am happy to alter my view with anything when a decent argument presents itself.

            I may also be partial to seeing how low people will go in order to try and convince others that I am wrong.

            August 16, 2017 at 3:25 PM
          • Aegrum Rhivre

            Like if you want people to take INN seriously, report it as news, with the facts, without the editorial bullshit.

            August 15, 2017 at 6:46 PM
          • You’re claiming Goons lost because of a very narrow metric you pulled out of your back side (DPS ships are all that count I guess) and yet have the nerve to complain about spin. That is some heroic effort on your part.

            August 15, 2017 at 6:43 PM
          • Never once said Goons lost. In fact I said they won. Just taking issue with the editorial spinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

            August 15, 2017 at 6:45 PM
          • Saying they didn’t come out on top (quote: “How is that even remotely on top?”) certainly sounds like you’re saying they lost by some metric of your own devising.

            August 15, 2017 at 6:52 PM
          • WhiteHalo117 Aegrum

            You need to calm down and go back to reading EN24.

            August 16, 2017 at 2:42 PM
          • Rob Bobbie Aegrum

            LOL. The truth doesn’t taste so good eh?

            August 15, 2017 at 7:36 PM
          • Dalael Aegrum

            I feel like self destructing 2 carriers in a row just to show you how little we really care about the ISK.

            August 15, 2017 at 7:52 PM
          • Erick Asmock Aegrum

            You really missed the whole “your ammo costs more than our ships” era didn’t you? Go have a beer and relax.. it’s a game…everyone exaggerates an beat their chest at times.

            However, winning the isk war and the objective is pretty decisive. I mean…there are no hanging chads to recount here.

            August 16, 2017 at 1:49 AM
        • EbilFairy Aegrum

          I love salt on my fish too.

          August 16, 2017 at 2:20 AM
  • So what was the flavor of structure being shot? The graphic at the top shows an engineering complex and Moomin keeps writing “Citadel” but nowhere do I see exactly what exact type of structure was being contested.

    August 15, 2017 at 6:42 PM
    • It was one of the Perimeter market Fortizars.

      August 15, 2017 at 6:45 PM
  • Libluini

    Nice to see some action in HighSec for a change. There should be more stuff like this, to wake up the many sleepy heads living there.

    August 16, 2017 at 8:51 AM
  • Mintaki

    It’s also a necessary evil.

    August 16, 2017 at 1:36 PM
  • Rhivre

    they have wardecced ICY. Afaik Eve-Mogul is not doing the same thing as ICY?

    August 16, 2017 at 5:06 PM
  • I typically stay out of comments/media, but EVE-Mogul is definitely not a PanFam pet. Part of our board is part of PL, however we also have board members from all alliances. We have worked hard to keep ourselves as neutral as possible, however because it’s been mainly PH/Darkness aggressing structures nearby, it’s been a constant battle to stay operational while not “bending the knee” as Khaleesi would say. Part of Mogul’s deal with PH is to not actively poach any of the RMT trade (Plex/Injectors), and since our core business plan is centered around industry/minerals, it’s of no issue to us. You will notice that of all the RMT items, I bet not even 1% of the volume is through our Sotiyo in New Caldari. We had a scuffle last month (you can check war history), which required us to go around PH, as some investors in Mogul have influence over PH activities. We were able to shut that extortion down, and didn’t have to release any information we did not want to (APIs, Payments, etc).

    I know I personally am in PL, and the founder/chairman of EVE-Mogul. This doesn’t change the fact, and can ask ANYONE in PL/Panfam, that I’ve always put my obligations to Mogul as well as it’s shareholders above PL interests.

    August 16, 2017 at 7:25 PM
  • Jump Clone

    I really wish I could join to take that precise citadel and every other belonging to NS alliances in HS down. Is there a way to proceed ?

    August 17, 2017 at 3:53 PM
    • Moomin Amatin Jump Clone

      The Pandemic Horde citadels are under their alliance banner. But there is more also to consider in all of this. For instance PL members are also involved in extracting wealth from hisec and ensuring that competition does not flourish. Often this will be wrapped up in small corporations. All hidden in plain sight.

      Generally I would think that they best way to handle these null sec run hisec trading citadels is to keep hitting them. At some point the normal line members of Pandemic Horde are likely to question why they are going to save yet another hisec neutral citadel.

      I would always urge caution though. So either join a group willing to combat PanFam head on or use the same deceit employed by the PanFam. Their is great potential in someone being able to write their own piece of Eve history. Whoever was able to take down such a network would certainly enjoy 15 minutes of being space famous at least.

      August 17, 2017 at 7:23 PM
      • Jump Clone Moomin Amatin

        Lots of us aren’t proficient enough in English to even think about making history or enjoying whatever benefit from that.

        That’s why we mostly don’t care : efficiency’s all that matters. The point us : big NS groups hassle us, all we can hope is to make their life as miserable as possible, and, if we can, leave the game have their RMT business broke.

        We’ll leave the narrative to who it matters.

        August 18, 2017 at 8:06 AM
  • Sure, we work with MC because they are mercenaries, as well as investment partners in other regions of space. I have similar situations with VMG and Darkness, because they’re the relevant groups in the area. As far as working with PH, it’s more of a “common sense” scenario, while living/ignoring each other. PH has not invested in Mogul, and as a result they don’t get any ISK made from our number of services. Like I said, Gobbins and I have very very different ideas for highsec, and we have pretty much just ignored each other for the most part (except for last month).

    Just theorycraft this for me, how would you proceed yourself if you wanted to start a new Sotiyo near where other entities are occupying? Politically, you would have to obvious reach out to said entities, otherwise it wouldn’t work and it would die within a week (or 3 with CCP’s vuln timer/war issues).

    August 21, 2017 at 1:09 PM