soo… you deride CCP Ghost for barely playing Eve whilst being head of the new NPE in a sarcastic toe, insinuating that he obviously should have much more experience in Eve to better develop an engaging narrative and then you belittle the new NPE for taking a few assumptions on what new players should know by citing an example of someone not understanding they need to be undocked to warp somewhere.

personally i think thats pretty unfair.

I agree completely. I think it’s a huge mistake to try to make the tutorial anything other than a representation of what the actual gameplay will be like.

IMO the best approach would be to put new players into a trap (like a sealed off wormhole system with npc’s guarding the exit) and they have to work as a team to escape. That’s it. You must work as a team or you can’t play the game.

That would 10,000x better for retention as that is the game, playing with others.

I agree with a previous commentator that the tone of the article is a tad belligerent, but it no doubt reflects his sincerely and strongly held opinions. Nothing wrong with that.

As to the content, I’ve yet to try the new NPE, but from what I’ve heard it’s an improvement on the previous one. Undoubtedly, it can be improved further, and I hope that CCP is monitoring feedback as assiduously as the author. We need an NPE which genuinely prepares capsuleers for the future.

And CCP Ghost? He’s surely as welcome as anyone to submit a rebuttal to the INN; indeed, I look forward to seeing such a contribution!

Its not unfair to suggest that CCP Ghost has under delivered on this particular project. However with that said I don’t agree with the writer when he sites technical/programming issues as one of two main thrusts behind the critique. Anyone can clearly see this is not necessarily CCP Ghosts field and therefore must defer to consultation from his team on what is or isn’t achievable in short order. Quite frankly its an oversight on the part of the development team as a whole either via communication error or simply planning incompetence.

On the other hand it could be argued that CCP Ghost, with his credentials, should be aware of the differences between direct and linear (sequential) access and their respective interaction costs. The writer does indeed make this point and I can agree with it.

I don’t agree with the writers other argument nor do I think it is at all necessary for CCP Ghost to have “played the game” in order to create an immersive new player experience of which technical issues, linear/sequential restrictions aside I feel has on the most part presented an interesting, immersive and interactive experience.

Where I do agree with the writer is in the failure of this NPE to bridge and transition from NPE to general EVE population. In the modern climate I feel this is a crucial step in the process and needs to be signposted. Whether this has been overlooked or is in the process of being redesigned is not exactly clear and therefore we have no option other than to wait and see if it is tackled as future iterations roll out. If NOT then I would have to conclude that other than having a glossy sticking plaster applied the problem remains the same.

That is a pretty accurate description of the state of the NPE, not sure about how CCP got there though. Nothing about the NPE teaches a new player about the ‘real’ Eve, except basic combat concepts (locking, orbiting) but even those lessons would best be described as useless. How many of you stop your ship immediately after a kill? How many of you use autopilot (even in high-sec)?

And while it may provide some backstory (there’s a reach) on the Drifter’s, nothing in the NPE shows you anything about what Eve is like, it would be nice to have a bit more about how the agents work and why it is a very good idea to complete those missions before being dumped on their doorstep.

I’ve done the NPE a few times as i’m an old pilot coming back for more and the tutorial agents let me brush up a bit. And the only good thing I see about the NPE is that you have more SP’s when you start the mission agents. The rest, well, just drop me on the tutorial mission agents doorstep because the NPE did nothing but frustrate me. Or at least give people an option to skip it, but still get the SP’s, because starting an alt is a pain now. I got the NPE stuck so bad I had to delete the character and start again (hint, do NOT get in front of the NPE and kill the second rat before you are told too, f’r was shooting at me, no one shoots at me and does not get shot back at).

Fly safe. o7

I have to give it up to the players. By and large the players have gotten behind new player initiatives. The established players are doing everything they can to help CCP when CCP clearly has no clue as to retaining players.
So many public fleets, vets in the help channels, vets trying to organize everything from mission running fleets to low sec PvP roams.
And all of it is far more effective than CCP itself.

Why the hell doesn’t CCP undock ships and lead newb fleets? Yeah, they did that a couple years ago and got everyone killed– but it got them out of high sec and into fleets. It brought the promise of CCP led live events……that were immediately abandoned after the care bears cried at being slaughtered in null sec.

Instead of learning a lesson and improving the live events, they were completely abandoned. When was the last time devs flew around in Jove ships for players to dogpile for rare KMs?
Yet that last live event was attended by metric shit tons of people willing to at least be led into PvP. It showed that given the ability to do ‘F1 Monkey’ PvP, many more players were willing to at least give it a go. The hope being some stayed with it and became more skilled than spamming F1.

Instead we get free SP and a shiny but ineffective NPE. Way to go, CCP.

The speech from CCP Ghost did nothing for me. Never understood what all the excitement was about.

I had a problem where I rescued the survivors from the ships before I was prompted to and then I couldn’t move forward with the NPE. I ended up having to opt to skip the whole thing after about an hour of troubleshooting and getting nowhere.

This is the exact impression CCP Ghost left on me after seeing him talk a grand total of 2 times. Once during his introduction speech and then later on the o7 show. Both times he spewed a lot of words without actually saying anything. And apparently only very select persons can see through this kind of charade. Then in later dev blogs he did it again, writing an entire essay to which the conclusion was… nothing.

He’s the type of guy who bluffs his way into a job, bluffs his way through that job and then one day makes a quiet exit. On that note one has to wonder how much he actually contributed to the NPE, because it isn’t like they built some revolutionary new way to teach. It incorporates only things any freshman gets taught behavioral studies. Repeating things 3 times makes people remember them more easily. Holy shit what a new way of thinking.

Well, CCP Ghost is not a EVE player. He is not a software developer. He is a crime investigator with a hobby for how does human mind work, and who somehow shifted from chasing criminals to trying to improve EVE’s NPE experience with some esentials on how does human mind work. He was hired by CCP Seagull and sees this career change as a challenge.

I think of him as a consultant. He’s not responsible for the code working properly. He’s not responsible for what should the players learn or don’t. His job is to ensure that the NPE is appealing and retains players. The exact tutorial aspects are not his responsiblity because, hey, he’s not playing the game. Which means he doesn’t haves a bias on it. He doesn’t loves nor hates this or that aspect, so he does not shoehorn his pet ideas into the NPE. Deciding what should the players learn and in what order is somebody else’s job.

He’s responsible for the concept, not the execution of it.

As such, I think he got it wrong by leading the players through a completely false experience without telling them that what they’re doing is not EVE Online. He picked the wrong kind of story. And then he’s working with CCP, that company where everybody is always an amateur learning to do their job as they do it…

I wouldn’t actually know where to start in teaching new players how to navigate the intricacies of Eve Online.

Designing a tutorial for everyone would be like convincing everyone and their grandmother that your own overview settings are the best ever and no one has to do their own ever again.

Of course Starting and ending the tutorial in a station in a pod, would probably be a good thing.

The worst thing any tutorial can do is to give a false impression of the game itself. A tutorial that can demonstrate how awesome and awful it is to play as a group, in a corp in high sec, low sec, null sec or wormhole space comes with it’s own set of benefits and penalties, and there’s nothing any tutorial can do to bring realization and understanding of the depth that Eve offers.

When I’m asked for advice by people who’ve never played Eve (before Karmafleet) was to speak to everyone, listen to and try out the advice for yourself (not everyone can cope with an armour tank) and when you can use the test server for specific stuff. Finally it’s a marathon with no real finish line so take your time and have fun with the people you fly with (and against.)

This feels a little harsh, even to me. I mean, singling the guy out as a fraud or a con man is a little over the top for simply saying you don’t think the new tutorial system isn’t all you had hoped for. I mean, this isn’t quite Greyscale-level Phoebe jump hammer or the Affordable Sov Act, aka FozzieSov.

For the record, the NPE isn’t just the tutorial. The NPE technically goes beyond the initial tutorial, and that is where we really begin to lose people. The new tutorial probably does need some tweaks so players don’t get lost or frustrated. But it has to be better than what was there before. I’m just not sure it warrants a dev call out.

On another note, was this edgy news, unafraid of pulling punches? Or just a rant?

Great thought provoking article, followed by an interesting discussion. +1 to everyone

Things tend to get complicated on a discussion. The question is, what the “shock and awe” approach of the new player experience accomplishes? My opinion is that it increases engagement and retention compared to the avarage 15 min drop rate we had before. This goes in hand with his intro speech at fan-fest so technical bugs aside mission accomplished for CCPGhost.

So where it fail? in teaching mechanics and interaction with other players? Perhaps in introducing the real EVE game play. This are things that someone that haven’t played the game cant deliver. Is this his fault? I think not. Is this what the game needed for newbies?

I don’t understand what were you expecting. Talking from the perspective of a totally new player (me) I found the tutorial to be awesome. I think the problems you describe are for people that have some experience already in game. Because what the hell is “Jove” and why do I care?(at this point at least, I guess) I don’t remember all the details now since I started like a month ago, but I do remember being guided every step during the tutorial. And right after that, after dying at the end to finally understand what is all about was astonishing yes, but awesome nonetheless. After that I was guided exactly to the place where those “intro” agents allowed me to try more things, learn basic ways to earn credits and get several ships for free.
Am I engaged? Yes!!