Blue Donuts, The Apocalypse, And You

2021-05-12

Header art by Quendan Comari

Possibility, in the near future, for the first time in the 18-year history of EVE Online, the server will be unified under a peace-loving blue donut consisting of flour, icing, little colorful sprinkles, and the most powerful coalitions on the Tranquility Server.  Or is it the first time? 

For some players, this outcome will signal ultimate victory, the successful end of the campaign they started over 43 weeks ago.  For others, this potential situation is the realization of their worst fears, and for them it possibly signifies the end of days for New Eden.  As I examine these two viewpoints and events unfolding in game, I can’t help but feel a chill go down my spine, as I’m reminded more and more of the events which took place in 2017 on the Serenity server. 

A Serenity Primer

For those of you who have no idea what I’m talking about, but occasionally take a look at the sov map link on INN to check in one what’s going on, there are four sov maps at sov.space.  Check out the one on the lower right. You’ll find there the Serenity Server, China’s version of EVE Online.  Like Tranquility, Serenity has its own totally separate player history of epic battles and events.  While we won’t go into all of that today, the downfall and eventual destruction of this server shows some scary parallels to what is happening in Tranquility right now.  It is an alternate dimension, if you will, from which we can either learn to avoid, or learn to embrace, our potential future.

In March of 2014 Serenity saw a 23-hour long supercapital fight in 49-U6U on the Chinese server.  Much like our battle of B-R5 it saw mass destruction on a record setting scale: 84 titans, 39 supercarriers, and over 1000 capital ships were destroyed.  Much like our current situation on Tranquility, two “Mega Coalitions” had been at war.  PIBC (Pan Galactic Business Community) and VVV (Veni Vidi, Vici) were fighting the RACOA/FDR Coalition.  RACOA/FDR has specifically formed to stop PIBC from taking over the entire server. They soundly lost this battle.  49-U6U was not the end of the war, but PIBC and their allies ended up in control of much of the same territory that PAPI now controls on the Tranquility.  The enemies of PIBC spent three years rebuilding and growing their organizations.  At the end of 2017 The Galactic Alliance (TGA) invaded the North and invited the entire Serenity community to help them fight in what came to be known as The Letter War.  Also, RAC invaded in the south.  Things started to look interesting again. 

It did not work.  TGA lost a decisive capital battle, and PIBC was able to push most everyone into NPC Null and then camp them.  PIBC had decisively won the war and put its enemies into a situation where they were not going to be able to rebuild.  They now controlled everything, and embraced the yummy goodness, harmony, and peace of the blue donut.  Unfortunately, after consuming enough blue donuts, the server’s heart detonated like a grenade, and it died. 

The Alliances not affiliated with PIBC didn’t try to build a bigger, better empire or plan for round three.  They were not interested in either losing the same tired battles all over again, or in kissing up to PIBC.  What they did do was withdraw to Tranquility, in mass.  From Serenity, Tranquility got Fraternity, VVV, The Army Of Mangos Alliance, and many others.  PIBC got total control of Serenity, but only for a little while.  In July 2018, the company that ran the Chinese servers for EVE Online lost a lawsuit in Wuhu People’s court for banning botting accounts.  They then hesitated to further police botting, which lead to its proliferation.  Their partnership with CCP soon came to and end.  CCP instead partnered with NetEase, a company that also runs Blizzard Activision’s World of Warcraft servers in China.  NetEase has, of today, not been able to meet the new regulation demands of the Chinese government and Serenity remains, for all intents and purposes, dead.

Will History Repeat Itself?

By examining what has happened to the Serenity server, we can draw the conclusion that the long-term establishment of the Blue Donut would not be good for Tranquility. But would it mean the end of everything?  I asked, on a Reddit post, if the development of huge, monolithic player organizations was bad for the game.  I got several interesting replies. The_Salacious_Zaand of Goonswarm wrote, “Yes.”  Heplo held the view that, “Humans went from hunting tribes to [creating] things like big federations, unions, and alliances, like the US, EU, NATO.  It would be delusional to think the same wouldn’t happen in game.”  Dave-Stark posted, “I’ve seen how this one ends, in hypocrisy,” gesturing at the current state of the game. 

Tranquility has an advantage that Serenity lacked: a diverse group of players from many different areas and countries.  That diversity creates a lot of different ideas and ideologies about what is fun about playing Eve, what is good for the game, and what is the best way to run an Alliance.  The formation of PAPI is an oddity, the result, I believe, of players rejecting the stagnation that occurs once major power blocks settle into their spheres of influence in sov space. 

John Donne, Anyone?

The big question is: What is going to happen after the war ends, assuming it ever does end? PAPI leadership has remained somewhat unified during the conflict, and has hinted at an interim period where they will stay blue to each other even after the war to prevent Goonswarm’s return to null sec.  As we’ve seen from the Serenity server, too much “blue donut love” is bad for the game.  With all of the diversity and different viewpoints that exist within Tranquility, I don’t see such a power bloc lasting for long, especially if we reexamine the factors that caused its formation in the first place. 

However, we may also ask: For whom does The Blue Donut Toll? It tolls for thee!              

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Comments

  • Guilford Australis

    Now cue up the usual PAPI drones to gaslight everyone with preposterous semantic self-deception: “We don’t want a blue donut, we just want our coalition to control all of nullsec with no competition. We don’t want to ‘exterminate’ Goonswarm, we just want to destroy everything they own, take all their space, and ensure that they stop playing EVE.”

    They always pretend the blue donut and Serenity 2.0 are future possibilities they have no intention to create. But even their most loyal bootlickers know that they’ve already made the blue donut and turned TQ into Serenity.

    May 12, 2021 at 11:06 AM
    • Moomin Amatin Guilford Australis

      I love this bit “We don’t want a blue donut, we just want our coalition to control all of nullsec with no competition. We don’t want to ‘exterminate’ Goonswarm, we just want to destroy everything they own, take all their space, and ensure that they stop playing EVE.”

      Now compare this to the “crime” committed by famous PL member DJ when they ran Goons. “We are not here to ruin the game, we are here to ruin your game”. Nothing there about stopping people from playing the game.

      So what one is worse? 😉

      May 12, 2021 at 12:38 PM
    • Havish Montak Guilford Australis

      Thank you sir

      May 12, 2021 at 3:08 PM
  • Dripple

    Goons coming here to prove, and scream that why “EVE will die if it doesn’t revolve around us” , just know that it will.
    After this war there will be a peace period, not because goons are reduced to fly interceptors from NPC Delve.

    It will be because people will return to completely different landscape a lot will and have changed during this war, alliances have to adapt to scarcity changes, rebuild lost infrastructure, settle to new homes and wonder what else CCP has planned for EVE.
    This is nothing new or “game ending” it’s part of natural cycle of war and peace, very few alliance/entity in null lives for endless war.
    When alliances have established themself, got bit fat and tired of shooting red crosses and (here is a big one) FCs have rested and their inner warmongers have started to wake up. (In this point Only few HC goons login to spam local “we are still logging in!! We haven’t lost the WWB2”)
    Nullsec entitys will find a reason to start a war, not because they want to, it’s because they have to.
    When alliance members get bored and alliances enter stagnation, unless they find way to provide content to their members their numbers will dwindle and they will weaken to point where they either disband or war is brought to them.
    War is necessity for alliances survival, it’s sweet alcohol of EVE. Even after a year of gruesome fighting, when you wake up in alley in hangover, piss and shit in your pants and you decide “it will be only spod and red crosses for me now on”….
    It’s only matter of time till you relapse again and find yourself in a battleline next to your fellow warholic.

    May 12, 2021 at 11:51 AM
    • Guilford Australis Dripple

      If you are a PAPI line member, as I surmise from your past comments, you are contradicting your own leaders. Noraus said the PAPI coalition “will be around a lot longer than people think.” Neither PGL nor Gobbins has stated (to my knowledge) that there will be a “peace period” followed by reset standings.

      Do you in all seriousness believe there is any realistic future scenario in which PAPI dissolves and PanFam ends up doing to Legacy or FRT what they are currently doing to The Imperium? No, me either.

      May 12, 2021 at 12:48 PM
      • Seir Luciel Guilford Australis

        “Do you in all seriousness believe there is any realistic future senario in which PAPI dissolves[?]”

        Yes.

        https://imperium.news/the-serenity-superstition/

        May 12, 2021 at 2:25 PM
        • Guilford Australis Seir Luciel

          Ah. An article written by a PAPI line member contradicting his own leaders, exactly as I described.

          May 12, 2021 at 2:48 PM
          • Seir Luciel Guilford Australis

            If what I think will happen contradicts what my leaders say, then so be it. I think it regardless.

            May 12, 2021 at 6:23 PM
          • Guilford Australis Seir Luciel

            Your leaders are the ones commanding 150,000 pilot accounts and 1000+ titans. I’m inclined to think they’re the ones who will decide the direction of things for your side rather than a random line member who thinks his leaders don’t mean what they say.

            May 12, 2021 at 8:24 PM
          • Seir Luciel Guilford Australis

            Of course they are the ones going to decide. I have no deciding power; that’s a given. I still have the prerogative to say what I think is going to happen over the next three, four years.

            May 12, 2021 at 8:38 PM
        • Gray Doc Seir Luciel

          Whoa! You chopped the quote before the clarifying dependent clause! No can do, at least if you want to be fair in critiquing a comment. Please deal with the entire sentence, including the dependent clause, and then see if you can still type “Yes.”

          May 12, 2021 at 3:24 PM
          • Seir Luciel Gray Doc

            The second half of the sentence is not a dependent clause, it is a successive element in a series.

            you | Do believe
            ……………………

            in all seriousness…
            ……………………………
            …………………………….

            : PAPI | dissolves
            : in

            :

            : Future
            : and

            : any realistic

            :

            : which

            :

            :
            :

            : / | to Legacy
            : / :
            PanFam | doing | : or

            | to FRT

            what they are doing | to The Imperium

            currently

            The first part of the series: Yes.

            The second part int the series: Will PanFam do this to Legacy or FRT? Who can say. Maybe Legacy will do it to PanFam. Or FRT will attack AOM causing Legacy to retaliate after a while. Maybe FRT will ask PanFam for aid, which they might accept or might not. Might might might, maybe, perhaps.

            But PAPI will dissolve in time. Absolutely. As for how it happens, which is what the second half of the sentence surmises: anyone’s guess.

            May 12, 2021 at 7:10 PM
          • Gray Doc Seir Luciel

            When I figure out what that means, I’ll come back with a crushing reply.

            May 12, 2021 at 9:38 PM
          • Xandryll Seir Luciel

            So you say PAPI will dissolve in time. There are a great deal of statements by PAPI member leaders to say otherwise which will be quoted by others here. I have also checked out your pieces on the blue donut and such. It is great to have a voice for the other side on INN so thank you for that. Is there a milestone where you would look at yourself in the mirror and admit you are a part of a blue donut? Such as percentage of nullsec sovereignty owned by those in PAPI, total population of the PAPI, or of the amount of time PAPI has existed? If so, what is that milestone for you personally? If not, why?

            May 12, 2021 at 11:49 PM
          • Seir Luciel Xandryll

            For me it is mainly an issue of time, and I suppose of conflict as well. I will be surprised if in three to four years time we still had PAPI. Some people say the war could go as long as a year longer, and I am assuming however long the war goes there is going to be a period of downtime for people to recover. I could see this downtime lasting at least half a year.

            So really, if the war went on another year (which may not happen), and then there was a half a year to a year of recovery, I might even say I’d expect PAPI to start dissolving in two years, with fighting and rumors of fighting happening sooner than that between PAPI members. Hell, its already happening now between AOM and FRT. If PAPI lasted three or four years I’d be very surprised.

            Furthermore, I’d be surprised if in that time we didn’t have any major conflicts either. Huge alliances are formed from time to time; this isn’t that big a deal, in my opinion, in and of itself beacuse the real trick not their establishment but keeping them around. The Warsaw pact. The League of Nations. The United Nations. The first two of these alliances broke up after a time. The latter two were instituted to try and prevent another world war; you could even call them a real-life blue donut of sorts. But they certainly didn’t stop war from happening, unfortunately.

            If in 2-4 years we still have PAPI, and a dramatic reduction in any major fighting—basically if we see then something pretty much the same as what we have now, even after the major fighting with Goons runs its course—I’ll be willing to say: “Hmmm I guess I was wrong. I helped create a blue donut that ultimately lead to stagnation in EVE.”

            May 13, 2021 at 1:18 AM
        • Moomin Amatin Seir Luciel

          “If you can hand on heart look at the sov map and not see a problem then so be it, there is nothing I can say to sway you. I just get to have a “I tried to warn you” moment later on.”.

          PAPI have only doubled down and more on what they have said. A couple of months at least they reckon before even trying an assault on 1DQ. There is supposed to be a PH meeting before doing it. I think that is the meeting where they will say “we have cleared everything but 1DQ, server cap, ccp grr, gon grr, so now we leave”. I would love to be wrong on this point but my track record so far has been pretty spot on.

          May 12, 2021 at 4:25 PM
      • Moomin Amatin Guilford Australis

        Vily is “re-branding” to another char that he calls his main char. A char he created way after Vily. He is also in the process of writing a book about his exploits in New Eden. Nothing stinks quite of a retirement plan than this. Now why is this?

        Perhaps if some were not wrapped up in their own spin so much they would be paying attention to the “details”. But no, they refuse to look at a map and certain PAPI members will even go to the extraordinary length of banning people from a forum for posting the in-game map.

        May 12, 2021 at 2:59 PM
        • Michael Porter Moomin Amatin

          He is not writing a book. A twenty page high five about how awesome you are at everything is not a book.

          May 12, 2021 at 4:28 PM
          • Not very awesome at jumping supers.

            May 12, 2021 at 7:48 PM
      • aaah!! I finally got it!!
        I’m starting to think that when Seir Luciel compared Imperium to North Korea, he was closer to truth than I thought.

        You see, what I’m expressing here are my own opinions and predictions of what will/could happen. I’m not repeating any “party” approved propaganda.
        You see in “pick up guilds” you can have your own agendas, opinions, kinks and even *gasp* get this…. you can express them in public forums!!!
        if you think I’m here parroting any “official statements made by our glorious/Godlike/human who doesn’t even poop leader” I’m not.

        “Do you in all seriousness believe there is any realistic future scenario in which PAPI dissolves and PanFam ends up doing to Legacy or FRT what they are currently doing to The Imperium?” – Don’t know, but its definitely not out of possibilities, I think there might even be new alliances/entities in future who could enter the nullsec arena and mixup things.

        May 13, 2021 at 1:02 AM
        • Seir Luciel Dripple

          “when Seir Luciel compared Imperium to North Korea, he was closer to truth than I thought.”

          This is starting to become something of an infamous phrase. I’ll remind any readers that when I said this, I was trying to express what my impression was of how PAPI line members saw Goon culture: they saw it as propaganda ridden and disconnected from reality. This wasn’t an accusation by me, but an observation of PAPI thinking at the time.

          And before someone jumps on this, this is not me walking my statement back. I stand by what I said; that was (and perhaps still is) how PAPI saw the Goon fighting engine—running on propaganda more than facts.

          May 13, 2021 at 1:27 AM
          • Zaand Seir Luciel

            The irony that you have to go and blame your own propaganda when walking back your statement about our supposed propaganda.

            May 13, 2021 at 2:13 PM
          • Seir Luciel Zaand

            Case in point.

            May 13, 2021 at 3:01 PM
        • Garreth Vlox Dripple

          “You see, what I’m expressing here are my own opinions and predictions of what will/could happen. I’m not repeating any “party” approved propaganda.”

          This would be more believable if you were parroting papi propaganda every time you post.

          May 14, 2021 at 2:45 AM
          • Dripple Garreth Vlox

            That is true if you label everything, which is not supporting goons a “propaganda”.
            Have you ever wondered why you ended up in place where rest of the nullsec, decided to but side their grievances and kick down your sand castle?

            May 14, 2021 at 9:33 AM
          • Garreth Vlox Dripple

            “That is true if you label everything, which is not supporting goons a “propaganda”.”

            well seeing as how everyone not with goons is a part of the side publishing the propaganda… I guess the shoe you just tried on fits?

            May 15, 2021 at 3:23 AM
    • Gray Doc Dripple

      “When alliance members get bored and alliances enter stagnation . . .” Just a second. You are talking about AFTER Goons get wiped out, right? But according to PAPI rhetoric, it was Goons that caused the stagnation; therefore, there could never be stagnation with only PAPI members left. Right? So, where would you get the idea that there will be a time of stagnation after the war? Just can’t happen, as only Goons cause stagnation. Unless I misinterpret PAPI rhetoric, or perhaps it’s that the rhetoric was never true to begin with. I hope you see, Dripple, that your own comment just doesn’t add up to past PAPI official statements.

      May 12, 2021 at 3:22 PM
      • Dripple Gray Doc

        “it was Goons that caused the stagnation; therefore, there could never be stagnation with only PAPI members left. Right?” – Getting bit desperate are we?
        Anyhows, in case your question/statement was real one and you didn’t roll to kindergarten, just to find something write about.

        Yes, stagnation is inevitable and to prevent stagnation alliances will have to find ways/reasons to go to war (war being most commonly used to find content)
        People getting bored has nothing to do with goons, however in future (in timeline where goons are beaten and they are reduced to Mordus Angles v2) I do believe stagnation is going to be a lesser of an issue.
        This is due the fact that entities can wage wars more freely without having to worry about goons deploying sigs to top the scale on side they prefer or just3th party for content.

        Goons are currently most dominant entity in nullsec and just the fact that it required rest of the nullsec to band up to challenge them proves it.
        When one entity in game grows larger, others have to either grow in same scale or make alliances to match up on the size to survive.
        Here is mainly the reason I decided to join PAPI, I believe that when “top dog” is knocked down, size of alliances will eventually become smaller, giving room for more independent alliances.

        May 13, 2021 at 12:51 AM
        • Moomin Amatin Dripple

          It did not require the rest of null. Legacy was bigger than the Imperium and PanDaFam way more than that. “wahh but capitals”, well based on what? Legacy went on about their massive capital cache. PanDaFam went on about all the rental money going to capitals. This whole war is built on a lie and watching it all crumble is truly very funny. The best bit is the capital power issue has been addressed by PAPI leadership, there will be no big battle in 1DQ with caps. So if PAPI never kill goon caps then goons are still “a threat” while the blue donut rents out pretty much all of null.

          This war is going to likely actually become a film given how farcical it is.

          May 13, 2021 at 7:29 AM
          • Dripple Moomin Amatin

            Haven’t you been boasting that how Imperium have held so long and how 1DQ will never fall or have you given up hope and accepted, that you will end up being next Mordus Angels?

            Am I interpreting this correctly “Legacy was bigger than the Imperium and PanDaFam way more than that”
            You are saying that Panfam or Legacy could have taken Imperium down alone?

            What comes to capitals and supers, dunno it’s like PAPI is learning from previous mistakes.
            I don’t know what you keep rambling about “lies, lies, lies” the battlelines where drawn by nullsec politics and it’s always been and will be about content and resources. Everything else is just about propaganda, which (unless you are child or simpleton) you don’t take too seriously

            May 13, 2021 at 10:40 AM
          • Zaand Dripple

            Just because you guys are painfully incompetent doesn’t mean that you still didn’t blue the entire game, and yet are still too afraid to actually attack something. Whenever you want to come remove us from 1DQ we’ll be here waiting.

            May 13, 2021 at 2:12 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Dripple

            No. 1DQ should have fallen back in October last year if it was a campaign being run well. Thankfully PAPI had no real plan aside from “goons will run as they only krab and never fight and we ran every time ourselves when we thought we were outnumbered”.

            Yes to the Legacy or PanDaFam were both individually larger than The Imperium, even by the kindest of estimates. Both Legacy and PanDaFam invested a lot of time in telling everyone how strong and powerful their respective capital fleets were.

            Weird, when this war started it was all about “extermination” and “stopping people from playing”. So what is the PAPI war goal now? Good luck finding one as I have been asking since December last year. The best I have got is “it is varied”.

            You note here that one side, The Imperium, still has the same war goal as when the war started. Can you guess what that is? It should be easy to do as it has been referenced many times on INN and I know you love to follow us here.

            May 13, 2021 at 2:35 PM
          • Dripple Moomin Amatin

            “Yes to the Legacy or PanDaFam were both individually larger than The Imperium, even by the kindest of estimates”
            So you are saying that Imperium would lose to legacy or panfam in 1v1 war?

            May 13, 2021 at 3:24 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Dripple

            They should if everything PAPI has said over the years is true no? “goons only krab”, “goons only blob” etc was a cry for years. So the self declared battle hardened forces of both Legacy and PanDaFam should have no trouble surely? Individually it would have been a challenge but it seemed PAPI was not up for a challenge. They wanted an easy win and hoped The Imperium would run just like PAPI members have in the past.

            Given that The Imperium is still very much not exterminated after almost a year at odds of 3:1 against them, I would now say that PanDaFam and Legacy would not stand at all on their own. If their combined forces cannot exterminate goons then why would they be able to individually? This is mainly based on military competence though as manpower is available in abundance. So pop that onto your pile of reason why PAPI has to continue to exist. PAPI is too weak, is what this war is really boiling down to.

            May 13, 2021 at 4:36 PM
          • Garreth Vlox Dripple

            No he’s saying the imperium 1v1 would have kicked the ever living shit out of either group, that’s why they teamed up to form the super donut, because their slight numbers advantage wasn’t enough to make up for their ineptitude. And even in this fight their MASSIVE numbers advantage has not been enough to save them on multiple occasions.

            May 14, 2021 at 8:38 AM
          • Dripple Garreth Vlox

            So you agree, that to defeat Imperium rest of the nullsec had to Bonnie blue themself.
            Not because they wanted or because some whacky renter/RLM scheme, it was out of necessity.

            May 14, 2021 at 9:28 AM
          • Garreth Vlox Dripple

            ” it was out of necessity.”

            No it was because their leaders are the kind of paint chip eating morons who would jump a titan fleet DIRECTLY INTO a swarm of anticap fighters with FIVE THOUSAND PEOPLE ALREADY PRE-LOADED ON GRID… You tools had to group up to massive numbers because you are following a pair of geniuses with the strategic skill level equal to a toddler try to walk up a slide.

            May 15, 2021 at 3:29 AM
          • Garreth Vlox Dripple

            “Haven’t you been boasting that how Imperium have held so long and how 1DQ will never fall or have you given up hope and accepted, that you will end up being next Mordus Angels?”

            Are you ex-mordus and just unable to emotionally move past their collapse or something? You keep bringing that shit up and I can’t figure out why because I don’t remember them fighting the entirety of nullsec single handedly for a whole year prior to their collapse?

            May 14, 2021 at 2:44 AM
          • Dripple Garreth Vlox

            Mordus Angels represented one of the saddest way of gaming “solo purpose is to grief and be “annoying”.

            Goons keep constantly repeating “if we lose 1DQ we move to NPC Delve so we can grief and be annoying” just like Mordus and that’s why I keep referring goons as next Mordus Angels.

            May 14, 2021 at 8:21 AM
    • Zaand Dripple

      Goons will stop logging in. Goons have to stop logging in.

      May 12, 2021 at 7:49 PM
  • Noob

    How is the blue donut not just N+1 on an alliance scale?

    May 12, 2021 at 2:59 PM
    • Moomin Amatin Noob

      You open a map and see that you are blue to so many that you can go all around nullsec using your allies jump bridge network. Then you will have the pre-arranged fights. Areas you have to stay out of as they are rented out. Any new null sec alliance will either have to pay rent or offer something else to the landlords of null. So there is a difference once you scale it up past a certain point.

      May 12, 2021 at 3:03 PM
    • Garreth Vlox Noob

      because it stopped being, n + (1), the second it became, n + (everyone not imperium).

      May 14, 2021 at 2:42 AM
  • kwnyupstate .

    The war will end when PAPI attacks 1DQ and loses since they are too broke and scared to use the titans and supercarriers needed to accomplish their goal.

    May 12, 2021 at 4:33 PM
  • Sirhan Blixt

    After their second defeat in 2017, those players on Serenity not satisfied with the status quo fled en masse to Tranquility. If those circumstances repeat on Tranquility, where would players not satisfied with the status quo flee to?

    May 12, 2021 at 4:54 PM
    • Michael Porter Sirhan Blixt

      Dual Universe. Spaceship Engineers. Starbase. Star Citizen. Any of the other 10 projects in development trying to be like Eve Online.

      May 12, 2021 at 5:17 PM
  • Eve_Osir1s

    Enjoy the war while it lasts my friends. Post war will likely see new abundance patches and staying home and krabbing will be the optimal play again. Should the imperium lose, PAPI will break into their respective coalitions and have meaningless campaigns to keep activity up and then blue up for major campaigns anytime the imperium rears its head. The optimal play for the Imperium will be to chill avoiding conflict and watch the coalitions wither until the time is right. It’s going to be very boring again to say the least.

    May 12, 2021 at 6:26 PM
    • Alaric Faelen Eve_Osir1s

      Exactly. PAPI will set up their rental empires with renters as meat shield buffers between their home regions and all of null sec will be under a NIP. Any fight in null sec will be some agreed upon ‘gud fight’ with no stakes whatsoever. They will have agreements to rush to any area Goons pop up looking for sov, but how effective that is after the changes to industry remains to be seen.

      They are fighting for a blue donut, and their only common interest is protecting that blue donut. Don’t have to worry about losing your capital fleet if everyone is blue after all.
      So once again CCP’s ‘fix’ to a problem affects everyone EXCEPT the players CCP is trying to affect……brilliant.

      May 12, 2021 at 9:36 PM
  • EVE Player #27482716

    Editing on this is atrocious. Good article regardless.

    May 13, 2021 at 12:34 AM
  • Democritus

    How far have Pandemic Legion and NC fallen (not to mention the other groups) when they happily ally with the infamous ISK for $$$ business groups like XIX and Fraternity. These businesses should of been run out of 0.0 long ago.

    May 13, 2021 at 12:58 AM
    • Moomin Amatin Democritus

      “happily ally”, NC have been running the nullsec rental game for over a decade. The reason FIRE was even created was because NC got annoyed at XDeath. Yet all this rent money seems to have vanished. I wonder where it is and I wonder why no one is writing about it?

      May 13, 2021 at 7:33 AM
      • Carvj94 Moomin Amatin

        It’s fairly easy for people in leadership positions to steal modest ammounts of isk from corporate accounts and claim the isk was spent to support the Corp. But obviously stealing items or minerals is a lot more involved and requires one to haul it to a location where it can be sold and of course there’s far fewer legitimate reasons for someone to take a ton of items out of a stockpile so they’ll be easier to catch. One of the many reasons PAPI is having isk troubles while Goons have an untold number of subcaps stockpiled and a supercap fleet that is apparently evenly matched with the other 75% of null players caps combined. Thanks in part to most of PAPI’s income is straight isk while a vast majority of Goons income is from industry and the stockpiles aren’t as spread out which makes for easy auditing.

        May 14, 2021 at 6:24 AM
  • Zaand

    Really weird reading an article and seeing your name pop up and having no idea where you were quoted from.

    May 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM
    • Moomin Amatin Zaand

      Were you drunk?

      May 13, 2021 at 4:38 PM
    • Rhivre Zaand

      Hey Zaand.
      I have looked into this, and it is from a reddit post from 10 days ago.

      The article will be updated to reflect this

      https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/n3wbzl/player_organization_structure/

      May 13, 2021 at 7:33 PM
      • Zaand Rhivre

        Oh I don’t mind at all, I just thought I was tripping for a second when I read my name. I figured it was some random meme post comment.

        May 14, 2021 at 9:48 PM