The Clearly Successful Breakout of M2?


I found myself once more in a tidi slugfest, though this one was different than most. My enemies actually thought they were winning the fight. I had decided to roll out in an Eagle fleet; there was a fight to be had, but my ping only called for normal numbers. I had no idea what we were getting ourselves into. I settled in to my memefit 50mn Eris, loaded some fireworks and got into fleet.

Pre-Battle Hijinks

We had sat around in station, docked and merry, making jokes and trying to determine whether it was appropriate to shoot blues if they kept scotch in the fridge. Some of us bads, who couldn’t be cooped up any longer, had decided to hang out on the undock. I jettisoned a can with a single defender missile in it and engaged my lock. The explosions from the fireworks and the chat kept me entertained while I waited to see if we would actually go and do anything thing. Boy did we.

Suddenly, there was a great commotion. The fleet began undocking and soon we were warped to a titan waiting to bridge us into the unknown objective. “Take this bridge,” was all that was said as I furiously, ham-handedly, mashed the right mouse button, waiting for the jump option to come. Finally it did and having the green light, I jumped my beloved Eris into M2.

Battle Under Tidi

I didn’t expect so much tidi. For about 1800 players, the unsupported node was, as politely as I can muster, not good. It instantly felt like a sudden ten percent tidi. Being hit with a brick tidi wall, we all gathered our bearings and loaded grid slowly. We finally managed to anchor up, and we took a warp down towards the bubbles and near the enemy fleets. They were trying desperately to prove that their will wasn’t broken, that they are still fighting to free their allies.

You know, it wouldn’t be something I wrote about if everything went to plan. Naturally, I wanted to do some chad shit and shit went sideways as usual. I burned out towards the enemy Cerb fleet, overheated my 50mn, and was coasting at a smooth 10k. The problem was the enemy distance and weapon type. Normally, under no tidi, the amount of time before my angle and speed puts me in range is very short; usually the danger is minimal. I swear I had enough time to watch them wave from their cockpits at me in the awful tidi. The yellow boxes came slowly, then the red boxes, and finally I died in a fire. My one regret is that I had but one Eris to lose in M2.

I warped my pod back to the Keepstar and reshipped into a Sabre. Warping myself back down to the fleet, I anchored up. Lacking the crazy speed of the Eris, I decided to play the defender and defensive bubble role. The Eagles did great and now I was merely but an observer of the fight. The thing about tidi is that though the game around you is moving slowly, chat is not. Local was primary. For a guy now hitting bubble, saying bomb, clicking a few defender missiles, I didn’t have much skin in a very slow fight. So, I watched the numbers. I watched the fighters. I watched our Eagles clash with the three fleets on the field, all the while feeling pretty confident in the trades. Some of us died very early because of our aggressive entry onto the field. We knew it would happen. We were told it would happen. We didn’t much care, so in the beginning we suffered casualties. Watching Cerbs, and expensive fuckery die, I knew we had more than made up for it.

Our enemy hadn’t noticed though. They were deadset that they were winning the entire fight. We heard quite a lot of talk about us feeding, losing the isk war, the objective etc., but still we kept smashing them in the mouths. Their FCs fled, warping off, trying to escape, and still local was primary. What can I say; they bravely ran away. Clearly, they hadn’t won the ISK war, the objective, or even the fight. They lost expensive titan pods.

Post-Battle Considerations

After the fight, I left the Sabre Kira Jayde had left me, still super clutch, in M2 and went back to 1DQ and reshipped into an interceptor. I blew past their gate camp and cloaked up to have a conversation, a chat. Unfortunately, few were very talkative afterwards, so I guess I’ll ask the question here.

If you lose the objective, the isk war, and the field to your enemies, where is your victory? I guess for trapi, no caps, the real victory is the friendships you’ve all made along the way.

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  • Simon Chui

    They only need to succeed once. Their job is to take the losses and keep trying until they do. If just one time the Imperium doesn’t respond fast enough or big enough, their supercaps get out.

    January 19, 2021 at 8:08 AM
    • Guilford Australis Simon Chui

      This isn’t necessarily true. A single extraction attempt might only save a portion of PAPI’s supercapitals and capitals. The longer they wait, the more likely it is that pilots will miss a quick-form ping to save their supers. PAPI would need multiple follow-up extractions to save the stragglers. That’s one of many reasons the “log out until Goons go away” strategy doomed them to this kind of outcome.

      January 19, 2021 at 2:32 PM
      • Yep. If goons get a head up then PAPI fails to get most supers out due to PAPI being terrible, but a sudden ping from PAPI to do an extraction OP will mean most of the super pilots won’t see it in time to actually attempt an escape. Their only options are completely die in a blaze of glory at a planned time or risk most of their supers doing multiple risky sudden ops.

        January 19, 2021 at 10:20 PM
    • Moomin Amatin Simon Chui

      There is no success in M2. It is a battle lost at the armour timer and is still being lost now. PAPI have options here for certain but all of them are unappealing. Although PAPI may cheer about any pilots escaping it is hollow in reality. Already we see PAPI members moving from the front. PAPI hope that goons will just go away while there is over 40 trillion in assets at least trapped in M2. This has to be one of the best bits as I do not see The Imperium letting up the hellcamp in M2 any time soon. Perhaps the best option for PAPI is to rip of the plaster, take their lumps and then figure out what they are going to do.

      January 19, 2021 at 10:27 PM
      • Simon Chui Moomin Amatin

        Maybe my expectations are too high. If I were papi leadership, I’d look at what the Imperium did at the NPC Delve keepstars, and I’d ask why we can’t operate at that level of intensity and discipline. You know, if they could, and them having the numbers advantage, the Imperium would be crushed. The thing is, whether they do that is in their control, not the Imperium’s. If they lose, it’s because they’re bad and they never make the effort to get good. Best to shut them down for good before they have the time to improve.

        January 19, 2021 at 11:54 PM
        • Nate Hunter Simon Chui

          It was very clear that after the M2 armor timer PAPI was ecstatic that they traded roughly 1:1 with titans, and it appeared they were trying to get a decisive victory on the hull timer. They half arsed extracted capitals in the last hour before downtime which resulted in a large amount staying logged off in M2. Then the debacle with the hull timer happened and the good guys came away with a slaughtering victory. Leadership knew there was a good chance of this happening and thus the 4 hour pre formup for the hull timer.

          Test leadership then crawled into a hole and PAPI did nothing for a few days and in that time Imperium rode the momentum wave and did a bunch of stuff and pressed hard on catch. PAPI is still on their heels trying to reverse the boulders direction. Villy and company got bold and sloppy and are paying the price.

          It should also be noted that while the isk destroyed for Imperium and Papi is close to equal, Imperium has suffered far far less losses in ships than PAPI and thus has in general had a much easier time keeping the fleets stoked.

          January 20, 2021 at 12:30 AM
  • Rammel Kas

    The point of the camp is not that they won’t ever get out. It is simply to make them bleed for every attempt and pay a heavy blood price… one way or another.

    January 19, 2021 at 9:20 AM
  • Guilford Australis

    A stealthy breakout is unlikely to succeed because as soon as PAPI sends in a bunch of dweebs in subcaps to shoot anchored bubbles, we’ll know exactly what they’re up to, and we’ll murder their subcaps with fighters from carriers and supercarriers on the Keepstar while sending a swarm of Sabres to patch up the bubble situation. Then, every time they try that, we’ll anchor MORE bubbles to ensure it’s even less likely to succeed next time.

    I think the only realistic options are (1) diplomacy (e.g. PanFam throws TEST to the wolves in exchange for extracting their supers and leaving the war) and (2) an all-out titan massacre. Many factors will work against PAPI in the second scenario. First, in order not to screw over their pilots, they’ll have to broadcast this plan far enough in advance that everyone knows about it… including The Imperium’s Black Hand. Second, many of us are already logged in for the hellcamp or docked in the Keepstar ready to load grid faster than they can bridge support fleets in. Third, their supers are poorly positioned for a fight with Imperium supers on the Keepstar thanks to Vily’s “we had to do something” and PGL’s “we wasted too much time trying to ensure an even greater numerical advantage” YOLO stupidity. So if they choose option 2, it WILL be a massacre.

    January 19, 2021 at 1:34 PM
    • A well planned blitz with a lot of pilots is needed to clear a bubble field in a reasonable time, but a well planned OP is a well known OP in EVE so its impossible for PAPI to actually clear a bubble field without the Imperium knowing about it or responding to it quickly.

      January 19, 2021 at 10:29 PM
      • Garreth Vlox Carvj94

        “A well planned blitz with a lot of pilots is needed to clear a bubble field in a reasonable time”

        They tried that this past weekend, 3 hac fleets almost managed to clear the bubbles on their old fort location before we dropped in two of our own fleets and they ran. papi (no caps) just doesn’t seem to have the will to fight through what is guaranteed to be a massive feed of a fight on their side to get the bubbles down long enough for things to log in, cap up and jump.

        January 19, 2021 at 10:33 PM
        • Carvj94 Garreth Vlox

          Lol. PAPI WITH caps hasn’t really seemed willing to fight as needed since the beginning. It’s just a question of when their leadership will finally notice.

          January 19, 2021 at 10:37 PM
    • Nate Hunter Guilford Australis

      A stealthy breakout is unlikely to succeed because as soon as PAPI sends in a bunch of dweebs in subcaps to shoot anchored bubbles, soul crushing TIDI will be induced which then gives everyone and their parrot time to get into system.

      January 19, 2021 at 11:00 PM
  • Nate Hunter

    I can’t belive how horrible CCP is, they know there’s fights daily in M2 with several hundred players up to a couple thousand. How have they not dedicated the system to its own server until all the titans are either dead or free.

    January 19, 2021 at 10:56 PM
    • William Doe Nate Hunter

      Wasn’t one of their inherent goals to make the relative cost both in time and resources spent on super expensive ships such a Titans take considerably more than ever before? In a way, allocating a single dedicated server to resolve the hellcamp wouldn’t work in their best interests because it would mean a chance of titans escaping is greater than it is currently.

      Laziness is in CCP’s best interest for this situation from the looks of it. They don’t have to have a dedicated server for M2, and the hellcamp escape attempts by PAPI will inevitably lead to more and more expensive ships dying over time.

      January 20, 2021 at 3:10 AM
    • Carvj94 Nate Hunter

      Doesn’t really matter if it’s on its own node semi permanently, I assume you didn’t mean to say server, because the fight will always be limited by the power of the individual CPUs of the node. Short of programming tricks to lighten the load the only way the servers handle these fights better is if CCP uses more expensive hardware compared to their already very expensive hardware.

      January 20, 2021 at 5:05 AM
    • kwnyupstate . Nate Hunter

      Just leave it on a low quality server so PAPI can’t bring in enough to clear the camp. Thank you CCP.

      January 20, 2021 at 6:25 AM
  • Guess they shoulda’ logged back in after DT during M2 1.0 huh?

    January 21, 2021 at 7:15 PM