Legacy’s Town Hall


Wow. That is 45 minutes of my life that I am never getting back. To those of you listening to Progodlegend’s “Legacy Town Hall” on Sunday night I want you to know that B4R is out there, if any of you are feeling far more depressed than you were before! I took one thing from that speech: some PAPI leaders have no idea what is going on. Let’s break it down.

Continue To Be Patient

If you’re a Legacy line member and want a TL;DR, then I’ll help you out. PGL says “We’ve had some good fights, we’ve won some; Goons have won some,” which is probably the most optimistic part of the entire speech. What he doesn’t want to say is that the PAPI invasion of Delve has absolutely stalled to a halt. He says they are “continuing to be patient” while the Imperium kinetically liberates more of their Supers from the M2- hellcamp than their entire coalition has managed in three weeks.

Flexibility Needed

PGL raised two points on flexibility that need examination. He wants line members to have 7-8 jump clones ready to go, in all of their possible staging areas. Also, if you’re a krabber, you are now free to mine or rat in other parts of coalition space. What this really means is that their offensive war can no longer be offensive. The Initiative & Bastion are causing so much havoc throughout Immensea, Esoteria and Catch that PAPI has had to divert serious resources rearward to hold those areas. It is not safe to mine or rat in friendly territory, that is clear. Ships and pilots who should be at the front are now jumping around all over New Eden as the insurgency hits them where they are supposedly strongest. But guys, be a more agile player and be ready to respond to their ever changing “strategy.”

The Hellcamp Is Draining GOON Morale

On to the M2- Hellcamp. PAPI leadership thinks that the constant requirement to camp those juicy titans is draining the Imperium. Relating it to his own experience at UAXL: “As you guys remember, we ended up letting the camp go. . . . It’s actually having that effect on Goons too.” In a speech filled with self delusion, this was the icing on the cake: the M2- Hellcamp is still going strong and the opportunity to kill more of their supers each day enhances its presence.

Let’s talk about motivation. Leaders are there to inspire, to motivate, to make troops want to follow commands and to do so willingly, sometimes to their deaths. Following that speech, I wouldn’t feel confident following Vily or PGL into a carwash, let alone a fight.

I spoke to Brisc Rubal shortly after the address and he summarised it perfectly:

“In the interests of being polite, I will ignore the utter lack of any kind of quality production values for a speech that had thousands of viewers and had been hyped for days. The substance of the speech was notable only insofar as they said exactly the same things they have been saying for months. This was a speech devoid of news, devoid of any real information, given by two leaders whose speaking style makes Stephen Hawking seem engaging. They should SRP everybody in their alliance who sat through the whole thing, because they will never get that half hour of their lives back.”

To cap the whole thing off, a very exhausted PGL handed the reigns over to Vily. It was at this point when the viewers dropped by 1,500 people in the space of five minutes. I don’t think that needs analysis.

“We Still Expect To Lose Some Stuff”

There are some points of hope, though, for PAPI line members. “When we do finally get those titan’s out . . . we still expect to lose some stuff” and that could be any time in the next few years. Oh, and stop cherry-picking those relics. BRAVE are getting really upset.

If you are a member of the PAPI coalition and are feeling low on morale after that speech, then there is a place for you on the other side. Sure, you’ll have to listen to The Mittani talk about fish and pigeons, but you will turn off the stream with a smile on your face and a new ship named Pete that you’re about to throw into the fight.

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  • Garreth Vlox

    “They should SRP everybody in their alliance who sat through the whole thing, because they will never get that half hour of their lives back.””

    Call the cops there’s been a double murder by words

    January 25, 2021 at 7:32 AM
  • Simon Chui

    I’m starting to feel sorry for TEST, not for anything that has happened up until this point, but for what will happen next. You know how, in a fighting match, both fighters might want to continue, but the referee will stop the match when it’s clear one side is going to win, and letting it go on will just lead to unnecessary injuries? There’s no referee in Eve.

    January 25, 2021 at 8:52 AM
  • chimpy

    So many issues. At least twice forgetting to downplay number of titans trapped and having to correct himself. We have all the time in the world to rescue our titans…… yeah technically you do. Maybe come back in 2 or 3 years to see if the server hasn’t forgotten about them? Hope CCP DeNormalised doesn’t archive them in the meantime to tidy up the database. Hellcamp is exhausting Goons. Yeah I can think of nothing more exhausing than logging in knowing that the enemy fleet is trapped beneath you after the greatest victory in the history of Eve. Must be a real drag smugging so hard every day.

    January 25, 2021 at 9:49 AM
    • Guilford Australis chimpy

      Yes, it’s quite exhausting to spend six seconds logging in a carrier alt, undocking, and sitting there waiting for free kills while doing my actual work on the other monitor.

      *Wipes brow*. I just don’t see how I can carry on like this for longer than another six or eight months, maybe twelve, tops.

      January 25, 2021 at 1:06 PM
      • Sitting on the undock in tether must really get your jiuces flowing. I mean what if someone tries to attack your carrier? Are you not worried that you might forget to to dock up? This must be so draining. Wouldn’t you rather be relaxing poolside with a few mojitos and gabbing about how to rescue 300+ titans from a Goon Hellcamp under a heavily bubbled citadel? Sounds far more relaxing to me. I hear that papi high command have decided that instead of titans that bubbles destroyed are going to be the new metric for who’s winning this war and papi are waaaaaayyyy ahead on bubble kills you slacking bees!!! PS whoever made that Karmafleet Billy Joel recruitment video deserves a medal and a few hundred billion ISK, best Eve propaganda ever.

        January 25, 2021 at 2:59 PM
  • William Doe

    Vily being Captain Obvious there, funny to see he wasn’t the embarrassment of the two for this “Town Hall”.
    Piggles on the other hand.. I get it’s propaganda and all, but Jesus Tap Dancing Christ that level of cope is pretty bad.

    January 25, 2021 at 11:09 AM
  • Guilford Australis

    The best part was Vily taking a question about whether TEST will send fleets to help Brave secure the territory in Querious they were promised as a reward for helping with Vily’s war.

    Vily: “Mmmm, uh… that’s kinda a Brave problem.”

    So he basically clarifies that TEST only *promises* rewards but feels no particular obligation to *deliver* them. Okay, then.

    Good luck with that, Brave.

    January 25, 2021 at 12:27 PM
    • Brave should have Querious – as part of Imperium. Would be ne nice twist.. Wouldnt be nice to be part of Testisnext…

      January 25, 2021 at 5:59 PM
    • Nate Hunter Guilford Australis

      Brave abandoned querious at this point, not sure why this question would even come up. As soon as TEST announced they were moving to Delve but “holding the other space” it became clear shit was going to get bad for them. Legacy is the fattest cow in amount of space held.

      Who knew that the easiest way to cause friction in PAPI was not to attack their front but to assault their homespace.

      January 25, 2021 at 7:15 PM
  • kwnyupstate .

    Continue to be patient means “we don’t have the strength to just go in and free everyone”.
    Every few days some supers and a titan die and every day PAPI fly by demoralized about how they can’t break free; that’s like the best camp ever. Super awesome.

    January 25, 2021 at 5:42 PM
    • Garreth Vlox kwnyupstate .

      “Continue to be patient means “we don’t have the strength to just go in and free everyone”

      It could, but given their previous admissions about having no plan at all for fights #1 and #2, I think it’s code for “We have no fucking idea how to get you guys out without losing most if not all of you in on a log in and run attempt so we are literally just going to let you rot there for months and pray the goons get bored and go away.”

      January 25, 2021 at 6:08 PM
      • kwnyupstate . Garreth Vlox

        Is why they mentioned goons being bored with the camp. They want to sit and wait till goons go away. TEST alliance wants ignore.

        January 25, 2021 at 10:21 PM
    • Nate Hunter kwnyupstate .

      Its pretty clear their best course of action is to just go all in for the extraction, if they can muster the same number of people as the armor timer they’ll take some significant losses but they’ll get some of the ships out.

      They’re in a time or reckoning though, if they lose another 100 titans and supers extracting while killing zero of the Imperiums will they be able to continue the war or not.

      January 25, 2021 at 7:20 PM
      • Guilford Australis Nate Hunter

        I agree with this. It’s their only realistic option at this point. Stealthy breakout attempts like the one this week will cost them ships just like a fully-committed extraction battle. Furthermore, these sneaky ops reinforce the narrative that PAPI is a bunch of cowardly weaklings who’d rather leave their strongest assets logged off for a month – hoping their enemies will simply go away – than fight with their superior numbers.

        January 25, 2021 at 8:04 PM
        • kwnyupstate . Guilford Australis

          TEST alliance wants ignore

          January 25, 2021 at 10:16 PM
  • Jangles

    there is a place for you on the other side – mate tried joining you guys at the start to fight test, got no not recruiting oh dude we aint taking you guys etc, would of happily fought against test, instead been fighting Goons.

    January 25, 2021 at 9:30 PM
    • Guilford Australis Jangles

      Many alliances suspend recruitment during an active war. The ones that don’t generally are the desperate ones that are hemmhoraging members and need more cannon-fodder.

      January 25, 2021 at 11:01 PM
      • Still doesent make the statement ring true is all im sayin, i know why, just dont make silly statements like that, its clear we are not all welcome, witch is a shame as i hate test.

        January 25, 2021 at 11:30 PM
        • Moomin Amatin Jangles

          There is always a way for those wanting to. It is part of the challenge and the journey. I joined a feeder corp during the fountain war by accident. Suddenly I was in null fighting goons ;-). The stories we make for ourselves can be quite good you know and very unscripted.

          January 25, 2021 at 11:45 PM
          • Jangles Moomin Amatin

            Absolutely, im watchin you smack talk local right now lol, iv no problem with where i am or who im fighting, just a shame i have to endure fighting alongside test ;p

            January 25, 2021 at 11:56 PM
          • Moomin Amatin Jangles

            Your chance will come I am sure. If there is anything left of trapi.

            January 26, 2021 at 1:22 AM
        • Bro just shoot test on your own.

          January 27, 2021 at 3:00 AM
  • Alaric Faelen

    the UAXL hellcamp was far from home, basically a deployment. It was convenient to punish our enemies, but abandoning it didn’t hurt GSF.
    M2 is down the street from 1DQ, in a life or death ‘war of extermination’ we can’t allow ourselves to lose.

    Great comparison….

    It makes me wonder if there is a single person in papi that believes this garbage they get fed.
    Seriously, does Vily and PGL actually think their members are that stupid? There is spin for the sake of morale and then there is pitching delusion. I would be insulted if Mittens tried to pass off that sort of nonsense. It’s one reason I am in GSF– better leadership from top to bottom.

    Papi hopes that Goon morale is breaking? It would be if we were fed the nonsense that papi is being told. Yes….THAT would damage our morale. I would be personally angry and disillusioned with GSF if that had been my leadership making that speech.

    But it’s not. That is why I am in GSF and not any of their alliances.

    January 26, 2021 at 3:08 AM
  • Carvj94

    That part about “goons moral loss” was the funniest bit during his borderline delusional speech. The Imperium is at worst getting bored which is what usually happens when a war is winding down cause the other side lost. But PGL is saying this as if their own line members aren’t facing 10 times the moral loss because their fleet is trapped and dozens of their strongest pilots can’t log in cause they’re camped. In fact camping is often pretty fun when your on comms and you know your having an effect on the people your camping.

    January 26, 2021 at 4:47 PM
  • to let them all down all we have to do is continue watering our morale garden in the living room

    January 26, 2021 at 9:32 PM
  • Pee Wee

    Titans have escaped already. This post in not relevant anymore.

    January 27, 2021 at 9:09 AM
    • Deni'z von Meanace Pee Wee

      Prove it or it didn’t happen

      January 27, 2021 at 11:51 AM
    • Moomin Amatin Pee Wee

      So PAPI have nothing left in M-2? Nothing else trapped? 😉

      January 27, 2021 at 3:17 PM
    • Garreth Vlox Pee Wee

      you realize we ran the locators again and we know you still have 130ish titan trapped right? If you’re going to spin you should pick something to spin about that isn’t so easy to fact check.

      January 28, 2021 at 6:37 AM
      • Deni'z von Meanace Garreth Vlox

        Yeah those 170 which escaped yesterday were just ghosts or phantoms and 400 wrecked dreads they didn’t need those anyway. Hehe.

        January 28, 2021 at 6:59 AM
        • 2t lost 15t saved, good business am I right?

          January 28, 2021 at 6:26 PM
          • Wondergal Pee Wee


            January 28, 2021 at 6:45 PM
          • Garreth Vlox Pee Wee

            2 trillion lost because your leaders admit they didn’t have a plan for EITHER FIGHT before starting the two biggest fights in gaming history…. and you call that “good business” are you fucking kidding me? And that 2 trillion in losses follows more than 10 trillion lost in the preceding fights. And there are still close to 10 trillion trapped. Again I ask “good business”… are you fucking kidding me?

            January 28, 2021 at 6:50 PM
          • Deni'z von Meanace Pee Wee

            Why pay 2T for something which is not there anymore as you said above? Not sure can call it business 😉

            January 28, 2021 at 7:30 PM