Goons Are More Like BoB Than They Want to Admit

2021-03-27

Header art by Cryo Huren

I want to start this article by making a few disclaimers. First, by comparing BoB and Goonswarm Federation I am not trying to say that Goons are “bad” and, in the context of the current war, that Goons somehow “deserve” the assault PAPI forces have directed at the Imperium. Band of Brothers is so associated with evil, in Goon culture, that within that culture making comparisons between BoB and any other group is tantamount to declaring that group the scourge of the earth. It is a prejudice I do not share; therefore, I ask my readers to suspend that prejudice for the duration of my piece. My comparison between Goons and BoB is not an accusation, but merely a neutral – even positive – observation. After all, BoB was one of the most feared and powerful alliances in EVE. Many in EVE would be honored by the comparison. 

My second disclaimer is that the comparison between BoB and Goons is not a perfect analogy. These alliances have long histories and to make an observation about one of them at a specific point in time does not mean that the comparison is apt for all of that alliance’s history. Indeed, the challenge of EVE comparisons like this is that the game presents a constantly shifting set of networks and relationships. Cultures change. Strategies change. Leaders change. In sum, a comparison between two such complicated groups isn’t an exact science and does not claim to be exact in its comparisons. Moreover, any comparison between two cultures breaks down around the edges. However, I believe there are patterns between BoB and the current iteration of Goons that are significant enough to note and think about. Finally, I am making a comparison between present day Goons and the BoB of the past, not the BoB of the present under some other name.

BoB and Goons Are Good At The Game

Being good at EVE is going to mean different things to different people. There are, for instance, many different things to be good at in EVE. One can be good at mining, combat, industry, trading, etc., but not necessarily be well-rounded, bringing all aspects of the game together. 

One of the things that made both BoB and Goons so successful in EVE, especially at their respective peaks of power and influence, was their ability to bring all the important aspects of EVE together in one pile. Combining a large member count, with diversified interests and skill-sets and phenomenal organization, both these alliances were able to excel in each category of the game. Power in EVE isn’t found by those who can only win on the battlefield; it is found when armies of miners and haulers are connected to an ever-churning industry, supplying endless ships to unified soldiers and good generals under the direction of good leadership. Further, skill at diplomacy cannot be overlooked here. Both Goons and BoB were able to play well with others, so to speak (at least the others that would create mutually beneficial relationships and would strengthen the collective). 

EVE is a collectively-constructed game. The greatest alliances are those whose collective strengths combine into a holistic synthesis. Such a synthesis is the key to dominance and influence within New Eden and is a prerequisite for a great and powerful organization. At the broadest and most basic level, both Goons and BoB were able to accomplish synthesis and recognize it in each other. 

Goons and BoB Solidified Strong Social Ties Outside of the Game

Compare the following quotes. The first is from The Mittani found in an academic article entitled “We Play Something Awful” by Richard Page. The second is from Groen’s Empire’s of EVE

“Goonmeets have been a thing two to three times a year since the beginning . . . Goons are by nature more social than random Internet denizens, and especially your average EVE nerd . . . So, Iceswarm, good example. Everyone meets up at the host’s house in Chicago, eats food, gets drunk, and smokes weed. Goes to a gay bar, invades gay bar with a horde of drunk and high goons. Sings show tunes/torch songs with perplexed regulars. Hits a few more bars, then goes to a goth/industrial club. We end up eating at Five Guys at 5:00 a.m. to sober up/get burgers. Good times. That’s a party. Not sitting around folding tables talking about EVE Online” (personal interview with The Mittani, 2014). 

“Every year, Band of Brothers held a real world barbecue celebrating good times and unity. For weeks every August its figurehead, SirMolle, abandoned his avatar and socialized with his pilots as Par Molen, a 48-year-old Swede living in Copenhagen, Denmark. For the first inaugural barbecue in 2005, SirMolle rented an entire campground outside Copenhagen, and hundreds of Band of Brothers starship pilots would come to drink beer, eat roasted meat, and gaze drunkenly at the bright rural stars. Amid the drunken revelry they also planned war strategy. They would convene in a large presentation room that looked like a classroom to plot the organization’s future plans” (found inGroen’s  Empires of EVE). 

Clearly, both Goons and BoB demonstrated social behavior and bonds that took place inside and outside of the game. The borders of EVE and online activity alone did not contain either group, and the bonds and commitment between players were influenced by this shared offline companionship.

Goons and BoB are exclusive

Both Band of Brothers and Goons had an exclusive recruiting system. According to Groen’s Empires of EVE: “SirMolle believed that the key to creating the most effective military force in the game was exclusion. Band of Brothers corporations didn’t accept random pilots into their midst. Players who wanted to join their alliance needed to be vouched for by respected peers and have a track record of excellence in combat. SirMolle wanted to create an untouchable armada of elite pilots with no weak links in the chain.” 

Similarly, according to The Mittani, “[Playing with pubbies was just boring as fuck. They mined and didn’t work as a group. A corp of people doing their own thing, chasing ISK, ISK, ISK.” (personal interview, 2014; cited by Page). Page goes on to note that Goon “recruitment propaganda emphasizes the difference between goons and pubbies.”

Contrast this elite recruitment concept of both Goons and BoB with another current power in the game, Pandemic Horde. When I applied to get into Horde, I was in within a couple days; I encouraged my friend to play with me and join Horde as well. He got in about as fast. Applications to KarmaFleet, on the other hand, are strictly monitored and reviewed, and one might wait many weeks before being accepted or rejected. Those rejected by recruitment are told not to apply again. Newly accepted Goons are expected to participate in pings and ops on a regular basis, lest they be kicked out. Both BoB and Goons have wanted members who were dedicated and would contribute. 

Goons and BoB Utilize “Ruthlessness” as a Tactic

The following two quotes are from Machiavelli’s The Prince; I see both of them as relevant in recognizing play patterns within both Goons and BoB. I’ll comment on each quote separately.

“Never attempt to win by force what can be won by deception.” 

According to Groen, “Band of Brothers saw there was a benefit to [the] type of psychological warfare [done by Jade Constantine] and got in on the action. It sent spies into Phoenix Alliance to start petty fights between corporations and clog communication lines. . . . SirMolle and DB Preacher saw Phoenix Alliance as a weak amalgam of corporations that could be split apart, so they endeavored to create distrust between them. They’d share what the allies of Phoenix Alliance said about one another behind each other’s backs, and every time they did, they’d remind their enemies of ways they could end the war and move on peacefully. [BoB] had enacted a scorched earth policy, and if that meant destroying friendships in Phoenix Alliance then that was simply a casualty of war.” Similarly, the Imperium in the current war aims to break apart PAPI allies through spycraft and other non-combat means; Goons have become famous for their spy networks, with, ironically, BoB becoming one of their most famous victims.

The second Machiavelli quote goes as follows: “It is much safer to be feared than loved because . . . love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.” 

Groen remarks: “SirMolle was a forceful statesman and was one of the best EVE players ever when it came to bending other players to his will. SirMolle cast himself as a ruthless space tyrant: not exactly the bad guy, but a leader with the right balance of control and crazy. . . . He projected an image of the strong dictator his enemies wished they could be.” Likewise, according to Page in his analysis of Goons, he notes that “Goons are authoritarian. . . . [L]eaders of goons have often held cults of personality, in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek way. Soviet-style propaganda is common. . . . Goons often draw on Communist rhetoric in speech, referring to The Mittani as “dear leader.” The Mittani’s bio reads: “So Mittens is definitely a sociopath. If you’ve ever been around him for any reasonable period of time, it’s super obvious. He has this peculiar mannerism where he watches people’s faces during a conversation, lingering on each one (if it’s a group) for a very specific period of time, like a machine. . . . He’s so manipulative of the people around him (the only thing he’s good at) . . . [that] being around him in a social setting is definitely a battle of wills.” 

Obviously, a large part of the “ruthlessness” of either the alliance or the leader is part of a persona. Such personas can keep order within their corp/alliance/coalition, as well as keep other groups on the defensive. Both BoB and Goons have been called “evil” and “bad for the game” and both groups have responded, in the past, by embracing this “bad” reputation rather than trying to refute it. Both SirMolle and The Mittani have been banned from the game at different points in their EVE career. “SirMolle was ambitious. He saw himself as a destroyer of empires” says Groen; The Mittani has declared himself the destroyer of BoB and the future destroyer of TEST. I would argue that the leaders of these alliances are as comparable as the alliances they lead. 

Goons and BoB See Themselves as the Best in the Game

Initially I said that both BoB and Goons proved themselves to be good at the game, playing at a high level. But beyond this, each organization also saw itself as existing on a high level, higher than the rest of the EVE community. Groen notes that “[BoB] believed wholeheartedly that [they] had more skill and potential than any other alliance, and they weren’t shy about sharing that belief. They even joked about acquiring enough power to attack empire space and grind the fictional empires under the iron boot of Band of Brothers.” Goons later would actually successfully attempt assaults on empire space in the form of “Burn Jita” campaigns. These campaigns were impressive feats, but they were also boasts: “We are so good at this game we can afford to do this. Who else has ever even attempted a campaign like this, let alone has the power to accomplish it?” 

As Groen notes, “BoB leadership had developed a very high opinion of itself, and its pilots believed they were the game’s elite combat force. Logically that meant everyone else was mediocre at best.” Similarly, while early Goons prided themselves on being terrible at the game, Goons aren’t bad at the game and haven’t been for a very long time. Further, all non-Goons have been “pubbies” for a while now, and in the current war many a Goon has voiced “the only reason we are being attacked is because we are the best. In fact, only the best would be able to fend off and survive an assault from all of EVE . . . twice!” Both BoB and Goons have seen themselves as set apart and elite, and this mentality, often vocalized, has contributed to the hatred and assaults leveled at these alliances. 

Conclusion

Goons are more like BoB than they want to admit. And I get it. Goons have hated BoB for a long time and have a long, bitter history of conflict. And yet I can’t help but see this rivalry developing in large part by the similarities between the two alliances. I remember someone saying that people often are more incensed at others who are only slightly different than they are than they are incensed by people vastly different. The English Puritans were, in any practical sense, more incensed by their more lax Christian neighbors than someone Jewish or Muslim. The more alike two groups are, the harder they try to distinguish themselves by building their (group) identity upon the smallest of differences. 

As I see it, Goons hate BoB because deep down they see a large part of themselves in BoB. They see a drive, a will to compete, and a track record of success that they can identify with. It is something Goons see as threatening (“fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate”) in others because it is something they value most in their own regiments. From someone one the outside the Goon/BoB rivalry looking in, the two don’t look all that different to me. As Goons age, they have become more and more like the BoB of old. But I don’t think Goons should see this as something to be denied or ashamed of. It is true – there are some differences between the two groups; one that is most often cited is the relationship the two have to renting. But I see this as a minor difference overly emphasized in order help Goons distinguish themselves and their identify from an otherwise overtly similar foe. Once you zoom out you see that both groups, fundamentally, aren’t very different.

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Comments

  • yogizh

    I am going to stay polite.

    March 27, 2021 at 7:35 AM
    • Guilford Australis yogizh

      You can’t stay polite, Yogizh. If you do, you’re not being like BoB, and then the whole article falls apart because we’re supposed to be like BoB. And it’s not polite to make someone’s dumb argument fall apart, so I’m not sure where that leaves us in terms of politeness, BoB, and circularity. My whole world is spinning now.

      March 27, 2021 at 4:26 PM
      • Seir Luciel Guilford Australis

        “In sum, a comparison between two such complicated groups isn’t an exact science and does not claim to be exact in its comparisons. Moreover, any comparison between two cultures breaks down around the edges.” — Seir Luciel

        March 27, 2021 at 4:37 PM
      • I will unload my rage on innocent cormorants jumping into 1dq

        March 27, 2021 at 5:18 PM
  • Heathkit

    If an online discussion about Eve goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to BoB or SirMolle.

    March 27, 2021 at 7:35 AM
    • Well played

      March 27, 2021 at 10:38 PM
  • Moomin Amatin

    If you had mentioned something about “survival of the fittest”, “alpha males”, “lizard brain” and “flat earth” you would have been onto something.

    Your point about some of the social interactions is true. But also water is wet.

    One look at the map can tell you what renting does to the game. I would say that although you are told it is only a minor difference for some of us it is the defining difference. Renting is shit for the game and everyone knows it aside from those who benefit diirectly from it.

    March 27, 2021 at 10:10 AM
    • Seir Luciel Moomin Amatin

      There were more comparisons I also noted. But the article was getting too long as it was.

      March 27, 2021 at 11:31 AM
      • Winston Archer Seir Luciel

        Good read. Thanks o7

        March 27, 2021 at 11:32 AM
      • Rammel Kas Seir Luciel

        My take is much like Moomin. Water is wet. Most organized groups would tick these boxes.

        Still leaves vast swathes of open ocean between the two you’re trying to compare. Some of it hidden in your social comparison. Goon meets are just hanging out and chilling in pubs and places, partying hard at times. BOB meet degraded into a class room for making life shit of other people and making sure everybody was under peer pressure to buy into that meta. :hmm:

        March 27, 2021 at 2:37 PM
  • Alfius

    We don’t do elitist crap like BoB and their successors.

    March 27, 2021 at 1:23 PM
    • ShutUp ShutUp Alfius

      Yeah we do, let’s not gild the lily. We just dress it up differently and avoid the worst excesses.

      March 29, 2021 at 11:13 PM
      • Garreth Vlox ShutUp ShutUp

        “goons are bad at the game” is what we do. And we prove it all the time. Not sure where you are getting that goons act elitist but after having spent a few years there I completely disagree.

        April 1, 2021 at 12:37 AM
        • ShutUp ShutUp Garreth Vlox

          The lowest skill fleet doctrine is the t2 dramafleet ares, and that gets pinged 1/20 as frequent as fleet doctrines that are minimum 20m SP fits. Yeah, you can tag along in a Vigil or Burst, but you never see a ping that says “MORE VIGILS ON OP2!” We’ve professionalized, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but to claim that we don’t have a culture where the “real” contributors are high SP pilots that are good at peeveepee is just false.

          April 1, 2021 at 2:37 AM
          • Moomin Amatin ShutUp ShutUp

            Spending a lot of time in the newbee help channel I can assure you this is not the case in any respect. Quite the contrary in fact as a new pilot to the game can be up and running in a fleet within a few hours of starting. M2-X was caused by pilots with less than a month in game. Did you not watch the CCP “Butterfly effect” video?

            April 1, 2021 at 4:47 AM
          • Garreth Vlox ShutUp ShutUp

            “The lowest skill fleet doctrine is the t2 dramafleet ares”

            Congrats at being shit at knowing what our doctrines are I guess?? We have caracal fleets doctrines, corm fleet doctrines, thrasher fleet doctrines, moa fleet doctrines, all of which are a faster train than drama fleet, maybe you just don’t know shit about goons?

            April 14, 2021 at 2:05 AM
          • ShutUp ShutUp Garreth Vlox

            I’ve been around since JQV, I’ve forgotten more about being in GF than you ever knew. Yes, caracal and corm doctrines exist. Scroll back through the last 40 directorbot pings. How many are for t1 fleets, how many are for HACs?

            April 14, 2021 at 3:12 PM
  • Ambladier

    Recruitment standards? $10bux and a few bad posts wasn’t a hard standard to meet to get in goonswarm.

    March 27, 2021 at 2:28 PM
    • Garreth Vlox Ambladier

      10 bucks? Shit I got in for free.

      April 20, 2021 at 1:21 AM
  • Alaric Faelen

    Many false analogies there. I had to quit after the recruiting nonsense.

    We pioneered that same ‘recruit anyone willing to fleet up’ long before Horde was anything but a stain on PL’s mattress.
    And Horde has the same standards as GSF or anyone else— fleet up and participate or go back to mining in high sec alone.

    I’ve never seen a more desperate attempt to bash one group while glorifying your own (but it’s okay as long as you put silly disclaimers at the top then proceed to immediately ignore them)

    All any corp in GSF asks is that you participate at the most minimal level. A couple fleets a month of your choosing, in whatever doctrine ship you can or want to fly. Wow….how very ‘elitist’ of us. lol.
    Horde, NC, PL, Brave, GSF, et all have pretty much the same standard– minimal participation. The difference is that GSF empowers the entire alliance while all these others rely on rental empires- video game slaves that pay to play a game so an alliance leader can buy another faction titan.

    Also fails to mention WHY BoB and their remnants of NC/PL are so hated. They are the reason we even have a CSM- created in the wake of CCP devs cheating on behalf of BoB. Literally taking in subscription money (at the time the only way to play Eve) from everyone- but only developing the game to benefit their friends. Frankly, that should have been the end of Eve Online and CCP right there. Had it happened today, it would be the immediate death of the game.

    Although some still argue that it happens to this day. We’ve seen years of very questionable ‘fixes’ and the timing of releasing changes that seem to benefit NC/PL and hurt GSF.
    Tell me again what alliance Raivi came from……….

    During the Casino War all that RMT was allowed by CCP….until GSF lost the war and threatened to open it’s own casino. Suddenly it was ban hammer time. But only after GSF was ousted from the north.

    During the GSF invasion of the north a year or two later suddenly CCP introduced a blackout and Drifter invasion that all but ended a war that NC/PL was losing badly. Again, immediately removed as soon as GSF went home and NC/PL was safe.

    The death clone exploit was used for over a year by NC/PL despite CCP being told about it over and over. But within a month of GSF adopting the same tactic- suddenly it was patched out of the game.

    CCP has been in NC/PL’s pocket since BoB and continues to favor them over GSF in the most blatant ways.
    Tell me again what alliance Raivi came from………

    March 27, 2021 at 3:25 PM
    • Seir Luciel Alaric Faelen

      You have some interesting historical details/commentary here, but it is pretty clear you didn’t read my article very well. At least you told us: “I had to quit after the recruiting nonsense.”

      If you read more closely you would find that I’m actually honoring Goons, not bashing them. They are one of the most successful groups in the game with one of the most solid line-ups in all categories of the game. I happen to think, in this sense, they more balanced than Horde, who I see as having a less holistic setup.

      March 27, 2021 at 4:31 PM
      • Moomin Amatin Seir Luciel

        Did you research goon culture very well? I ask as you seem to have missed some very crucial diffrences which means that this piece will not age well. Thank you for trying to honour us goons though.

        March 27, 2021 at 6:09 PM
      • Garreth Vlox Seir Luciel

        “GOONS AND BOB SEE THEMSELVES AS THE BEST IN THE GAME”

        ROFLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

        No, we regularly make fun of ourselves for being complete shit at the game, and often prove that to be true, and your article became obvious in its push to sell a bullshit narrative the second you typed those words.

        Were you even in game for the bad old BoB/IT./Kenzoku days or are you just comparing currents goons to the mythical being you’ve been told BoB was?

        March 31, 2021 at 12:49 AM
  • ShutUp ShutUp

    I think if you’re gonna do a compare and contrast, you want to take a little more time to highlight differences as well as similarities. That said, this isn’t the worst comparison ever. “We have become that which we sought to destroy” has been a common internal criticism over the years, and I don’t think I’m really spilling any tea in saying that.

    March 27, 2021 at 4:03 PM
    • Gray Doc ShutUp ShutUp

      The article’s title indicates this is a comparison paper, not a comparison/contrast paper. It’s not a theme for English B and doesn’t have to include contrasting qualities.

      March 28, 2021 at 2:27 AM
      • ShutUp ShutUp Gray Doc

        I granted the author his central point, gave a suggestion that could’ve headed off 90% of the other comments, and yet this was the reply you decided on.

        Good job.

        March 29, 2021 at 11:11 PM
  • Guilford Australis

    Every comparison in this article is either superficial or equally applicable to every other large organization in EVE. So I guess everyone is BoB.

    March 27, 2021 at 4:23 PM
    • Seir Luciel Guilford Australis

      I’ve never heard of Fraternity or Legacy saying they were the best in the game (not accusing yall of anything, just an observation), everyone else below them. I have heard Goons say this as well as the historical BoB. I haven’t heard of other groups getting together outside of the game (excepting general events like EVE Vegas etc.). But why repeat my whole article. No, not everyone is Bob.

      March 27, 2021 at 4:36 PM
      • Guilford Australis Seir Luciel

        Those would indeed be things that I characterized as superficial.

        March 27, 2021 at 4:37 PM
      • Elithiel en Gravonere Seir Luciel

        There’s no doubt about it. We have improved a LOT since the Casino war. Most Goons who are saying they’re good are comparing themselves to how they were 5 years earlier. Without doubt, you don’t get to hold off the whole rest of Eve for 9 months of non-stop pressure against us, without some kind of confidence of our abilities. But we also regularly state that “goons can’t tackle” and other types of poking fun at ourselves regularly. It’s part of our culture to call ourselves idiots whenever we stuff up. We stuff up a lot. Contrast this to BoB which, had a similar culture to Pandemic Legion with their elitist talk…

        April 20, 2021 at 2:15 AM
      • Garreth Vlox Seir Luciel

        “I have heard Goons say this as well as the historical BoB. ” When exactly did you hear them say this….? Because if it was said after holding off the ENTIRETY of nullsec for 9 plus months in the longest hot war in eve history…. that’s arguably a deserved opinion. That being said, “goons can’t tackle” and “gons are bad” are repeated memes on goon coms during fleets for a reason, we aren’t “elite” and we know it.

        April 20, 2021 at 2:39 AM
    • well even now 70ish % of ccp play under pl nc sp they are bob no2
      we get hard time to hold sov make new one that is easy to take over ,, same for rest junk they did to this great game
      even now with new boss that demand looooad of $ in returns ,forcing to pay to win model (crap out even more mining drops value from missions or hubs etc ,lowering rewards ,and now forcing after removal of npc stations citadel tax in way of core ) so is this game worth to play any more ?? without war ? NOP , that only hold eve still live , how is to be in hisec expensive ,, how is in lowsec for most booring/expensive ,for null super booring and super expensive , next big patch will be buy ore from these npc corps that mine belts -> GAME OVER

      March 29, 2021 at 9:26 AM
  • DevilDude

    As someone who played the game during the time that BoB was around (and NC/PL are not BoB, even if a lot of the same corps/players are in them), you’re just… Wrong.

    The analogies that do hit are so vague that they could be applied to any successful organization, and you’re using them to gloss over deep differences in character and values.

    The biggest issue with this whole premise though, is that you don’t really seem to know what BoB was like. EvE was a very different game when BoB was around and the truth is an entity using their structural precepts would never get as powerful as they were for their time in today’s EvE. We have holdovers from that era like Rote Kapelle, they’re good at what they do, but they’re never going to be the kind of powerhouse goons or horde are, and that’s a limitation imposed by the preffered organizational structure they share with entities like BoB.

    BoB was largely organized around self reliance and personal skill, doctrines as we know they today weren’t even a concept, pilots were told to fit their ships to hit at a certain optimal range and maybe a certain EHP and expected mostly to figure out a fitting for themselves. Pilots were expected to be competent and know how to fly in fleet without any instruction beyond what to align to what to tackle and what to shoot, and they were expected to know how to do those things without any kind of organized training in corp, those sorts of skills were prerequisites for getting in at all. There was no SRP, if you lost a ship that was your problem and you were expected to provide your own ships and fittings as well.

    Comparing BoB to Goons is like comparing a medieval duchy to the Dutch east india company. They are the products of two completely different era’s of shared history, the latter is simply more sophisticated and subtle than the former because the environment it finds itself in demands it.

    March 30, 2021 at 12:25 AM
  • You’re right: Goons are exactly like BoB in that we have a fair number of people and we know things about EVE online and we sometimes flex on people for fun.

    That’s about where the similarities end. I’d write more about it, but I’d be here all night.

    March 30, 2021 at 5:19 AM
  • Merry Christmas Mr Cricket

    Goons have been boring for a few years now. Either start being interesting again or find another game. Hopefully after getting reset to LowSec Goons are kept out of Null for a few years. Goons are directly responsible for all the stagnation and blue donuttery.

    April 11, 2021 at 11:10 AM
    • So The Imperium fighting outnumbered 50k vs 150k for almost a year, setting two World records, winning the largest capital fight in history and a lot more besides is boring? No need to answer by the way as you are then trying to blame The Imperium for stagnation and blue donuts which kind of proves a point.

      April 11, 2021 at 2:25 PM
    • ” Goons are directly responsible for all the stagnation and blue donuttery.”

      And yet the biggest blue donut in the game is currently the one trying to drive them out. And prior to that the biggest fights were started because goons were the ones starting them….. yep definitely sounds like the goons caused the “stagnation” and the not the MASSIVE nullsec renter blocks who need stagnation to get paid who are trying to kill goons….

      April 20, 2021 at 1:19 AM
  • Garreth Vlox

    I mean yeah, your post here is the same shit we’ve seen repeated by papi all year, but its definitely not bigger. If anything you managed to put even less effort into your posting here than the papi reddit brigade and that’s saying something.

    April 20, 2021 at 1:20 AM
  • Elithiel en Gravonere

    “Contrast this elite recruitment concept of both Goons and BoB with another current power in the game, Pandemic Horde. When I applied to get into Horde, I was in within a couple days; I encouraged my friend to play with me and join Horde as well. He got in about as fast. Applications to KarmaFleet, on the other hand, are strictly monitored and reviewed, and one might wait many weeks before being accepted or rejected. Those rejected by recruitment are told not to apply again. Newly accepted Goons are expected to participate in pings and ops on a regular basis, lest they be kicked out.”

    As someone who was once a recruitment officer for Karmafleet, I’d like to address this one in particular. Screening had to be installed in place, due to the great number of spies applying to join Karmafleet. It got to a point where, it was causing distrust in the alliance when another ship would get awoxxed. Everyone would blame our mob. This was never addressed in Pandemic Horde. I remember one character even applied to Pandemic Horde with a character named “Definitely not a spy”, he got in. We did it for a laugh just to test how lax Pandemic Horde’s accept everyone policy was.

    I don’t think it’s elitist to keep your guy’s assets safe from spies and awoxxers, RMT’ers and botters. I don’t think it’s fair to call us elitist, just because we instigated a policy of screening of characters applying. I We can work with a 1 day old newbie and train them. So the requirements aren’t the problem. In addition, I’m not sure I’d count making sure you go on 3 fleets in a 3 month period “BoB level Elitist”. Seriously, I’ve never seen a more lower requirement in any other corporation I’ve played in…

    Your arguments just don’t add up Seir Luciel.

    April 20, 2021 at 2:27 AM