Why the Dissolution of CO2 is Good for EVE


Unless you have been under a rock the last week, you should know CO2 has fail cascaded. In the end, this is good for the players and Eve Online. The winners are perceived to be the Imperium. I’ll argue what the Imperium achieved was more on the lines of revenge, a morale boost, and (for those paying attention) another example of them holding to and keeping diplomatic or black ops promises. Make no mistake! These are very important aspects of the game and signal a clear win, but they aren’t the full picture.

There is no doubt that losing things in Eve Online is the least enjoyable experience for players. For CO2 this last week has been the nuclear endgame of loss. Apparently, they lost everything. CO2 lost their leader, their Alliance fail cascaded, much of their stuff was locked in stations they no longer control. In reality, they lost their home.

And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place

Let’s face it. CO2 was poorly managed from an alliance perspective. When your leader resorts to personally giving away supers and skill extracts multiple characters to pay SRP, you have serious issues. Couple that with a volatile leader who rules by emotion, you have a recipe for disaster. CO2 leadership has made mistake after mistake. Trust is a commodity in Eve and CO2 had effectively lost it.

The above developments in CO2 made diplomacy hard and also produced a field of enemies. Couple that with turning on an ally in the past, (who is far more powerful today) it becomes not a game of if, but when, they will strike. CO2 leadership was outplayed because they viewed the game with the blinders of battle on the field of diplomacy, subterfuge, and alliance scale management in game without regard for the reality of the human condition.

The Triple Crown of EVE

When you look at the course of events this is the biggest thing to happen in Eve. Even if you don’t agree with that statement, it is unmistakably the biggest thing to happen in a long while. This was the trifecta. The hattrick of Eve. Co2 had all their Alliance assets stolen, lost SOV, and had their leader headshotted. They lost their Alliance because of it. “Headshotted” is perhaps the wrong term. It’s more like he deliberately tried to get banned by raging with his circus stunt online threats against The Judge. Had Co2 cultivated its leadership and had succession plans they could have perhaps weathered the storm and gone on to live another day.

No One Likes to Lose

I am sure from all I have listened to and read that gigX cared for his followers. He loved CO2 and all it was. He was just the wrong leader with the wrong leadership style. I don’t say that to beat gigX down. This is devastating to a leader. Everyone down to the line members who have invested so much into what they thought they were as players in the game as members of CO2 are affected.

It was emotional when the Imperium lost the North. But each corporation and alliance did what it needed to do to secure as much as they could. We didn’t worry about the next step. We were communicated to and knew what was needed. Confident that Alliance Leadership would communicate a plan and we would be able to evaluate. Everyone else in Eve thought the Imperium and Goonswarm would die.

All the claims by leaders in the Money Badger Coalition to the rest of EVE never really materialized. Those, who got paid to do so, convinced the rest of Eve to go on a crusade to end the reign of the evil Goons. They only created a stronger more formidable Imperium. Many groups who have lost big but had strong leadership have re-built and gone on to be great houses of Eve. That is not the path of CO2. CO2, for now, is lost to the Darwinism of EVE.

No One Does the Big Story Like EVE

No press is bad press and no one does press like EVE. Sure, stuff happens in other games but most gaming press is about new releases or reviews of games and hardware. The universe of Eve is different. We are the game. We are the story. Unlike other games, Eve is the only real alternate universe.

It is clear the Imperium pushed information about this event to a lot of external gaming news publications. Key Imperium players have been available to media outlets throughout the process. What seems to have been far too silent is CCP in this media blitz. Granted, I didn’t ask CCP because they never return my calls. Hopefully buying them a few beverages at Eve Vegas will help my cause. Nothing sells EVE Online like media attention.

I had people reach out to me the next day at work and ask about what really happened. They wanted details. Some of these folks were not gamers but had heard of the story nonetheless. Some were gamers wondering if they should finally give EVE a try. To them, I said to join us in the grand adventure. We’d get them over the evil learning curve.

And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place

The Imperium could have hellcamped the Keepstar longer and forced player assets into safety. A decision was made that this would not be healthy for the game. That is perhaps the most important thing I have taken away from what I have heard. Yes, the Imperium wanted revenge on gigX, CO2 leadership, and players who were around during the backstabbing in the north. We were never going to be friends. Even with that and the necessary pain destroying CO2 would cause, the intent was not to drive players away from EVE. That’s hard. It’s a challenge to deal with what happened. There is no way not to hurt people and make them feel some amount of pain.

Losing hurts. The pain could have been made far worse for the line members. Instead, choices were made. Imperium line members got some hellcamp fun and a huge morale boost for a time. CO2 line members (most of them) got some mercy and a way out without the cost of asset safety. It makes me wonder if we don’t have some Tleilaxu in Imperium leadership.

Win, Win, Win

In the end, toxic leadership was removed from the game. A poorly run alliance was destroyed for the present. For many, an exciting event happend that generated interest both inside and outside the EVE community. While many line members may be unhappy and even a few leave the game, more will try EVE for the first time and hopefully stick with it. The Imperium could have twisted the knife in the back of CO2 line members but didn’t because it would have been bad for the game.

Those who ridiculously hold onto the fake mantra that the Imperium is here to ruin the game should take note. They again show they are one of the primary drivers of people to Eve by pushing news to other gaming outlets and not forcing asset recovery for CO2 line members. The Imperium wants Eve to grow just like every other player and organization who loves the game.

Who wins? Everyone except gigX and his leadership. You win. CCP wins. The Imperium wins. EVE wins.

Over at INN Twitch, there has been non-stop coverage of the events of the week. If you want to understand it from a deeper perspective I strongly encourage you to watch this edition of Talking in Stations from the Saturday 9/16/2017 broadcast with Aryth.

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  • Vedran Maric

    Imperium is not EVE, Goons are not EVE so this article is completely irrelevant

    September 18, 2017 at 4:47 PM
    • Rhivre Vedran Maric

      Don’t worry, we have one coming tomorrow about how the entirety of eve should mourn the passing of CO2.

      September 18, 2017 at 5:02 PM
      • Arrendis Rhivre

        Can I write one about how everyone should feel exactly the way they do already because confirmation bias is a thing and nobody’s going to change anyone’s mind on all of this no matter how well-reasoned and well-presented their position is?

        September 19, 2017 at 5:49 AM
        • Rhivre Arrendis

          Only if it is over 7000 words.

          September 19, 2017 at 6:53 AM
          • Moomin Amatin Rhivre

            With the correct amount of commas.

            September 19, 2017 at 7:33 AM
          • Mintaki Moomin Amatin

            … and apparently no double spaces after periods because I learned to write from the era of typewriter to computer transition? Gosh, I am old, and bad…

            September 21, 2017 at 3:05 AM
    • Mikael Wolgast Vedran Maric

      nobody said we are. but we defenatly are a part of eve. and like it or not an important part.

      September 18, 2017 at 7:26 PM
    • Vertigoe Vedran Maric

      what you just said is stupid and makes no sense. This could apply to any article written about any entity within this game.

      September 18, 2017 at 9:31 PM
  • Doughlas MacAlister

    This is well put argument, and I wholeheartedly agree with you sir.

    September 18, 2017 at 5:50 PM
  • Pew Pew

    This is you right now, lol


    September 18, 2017 at 7:31 PM
  • Rolfski

    Were you typing with one hand and jerking with the other when you wrote this?

    September 18, 2017 at 7:46 PM
  • GS Total Newbie

    While I do love the fact that GigX got paid back in spades, his ban, and the demise of CO2 are not good for the game at all. Bad leadership leads to bad decisions as we have seen, however, just because you or I think he’s a bad leader, doesn’t mean the people following him do. If CO2 line members didn’t like him, their alliance, or their SRP program, changing corps/alliances in Eve is all too easy. But the fact remains that many many many members stayed loyal to him. This event should be summed up as, “The Only Way To Win Anymore Is Through The Meta Game”. Sadly, military victories seem to be a thing of the past, and Meta Gaming, Isk hoarding, Reddit Posting, and everything BUT Pew Pew are the new warfare in Eve. That is what is sad, and none of it is good for the game.

    September 18, 2017 at 8:17 PM
    • Vertigoe GS Total Newbie

      Gigx didnt get banned by any action of The Imperium or The Judge, he got banned because of his own actions. If he had accepted the fate that was laid out before him we would be talking a different story about how co2 is going to rebuild etc., instead he killed his alliance by his own actions no one else.

      September 18, 2017 at 9:27 PM
    • The reality is, in most of Eve today, outright military victories are going to be rare. We’ve entered into a Cold War period. Proxy wars, diplomacy and sabotage along with irregular warfare are the new norm.

      September 19, 2017 at 2:17 AM
      • Richard Hicks Eli

        unless some large force materializes out of thin air similar to how goon swarm and test did it will most likely stay in this cold war state

        September 20, 2017 at 9:16 PM
        • Mintaki Richard Hicks

          The “Cold War” state is because of a combination of things, and the amount each one plays into it is debatable as well. There is the sov system, citadels, alliance and coalition sizes and locations, time of year, alignment of the stars in the sky, and when each coalition leader decides to change their underwear to consider.

          Until the sov, moon mining, and other things stabilize, coalitions are hesitant to break into major wars and focus on skirmishes and what I would call “short wars”. Until CCP makes significant moves to change this, it will likely stay that way.

          They [CCP] have said, many times, they don’t want to touch the sov system that exists because they want to work on something better.. they hint at it without any information about when it might arrive or where they are on it and it’s a very important aspect of the game that a lot of people feel they are neglecting, myself included.

          If you want military victories, keep pressing CCP to make these changes they keep alluding to!

          September 21, 2017 at 2:54 AM
          • Arrendis Mintaki

            There’s another significant factor: supercapital proliferation. They’re the ultimate defensive weapons, and unless you can guarantee having enough of them on the field to overcome your enemy’s supercap fleet, you’re not going to bring them to an offensive war.

            And if you don’t have them, and the defense does… you’re probably not getting very far on offense.

            September 22, 2017 at 12:55 AM
          • Mintaki Arrendis

            Yes, a valid point.

            September 23, 2017 at 6:40 AM
    • Arrendis GS Total Newbie

      His ban removes someone who has made a habit of threatening people with offline violence from the game. Not only did he make his threats multiple times over the course of hours, this is not the first time he’s made these sort of threats. Previous occasions were simply not brought to CCP’s attention, as they occurred in private diplomatic channels.

      September 19, 2017 at 5:42 AM
      • GS Total Newbie Arrendis

        I did NOT say his ban wasn’t warranted. I did say it was not good for the game. See the difference? Erick vomits out how this is great for the game. I think it isn’t, because looking at the rest of eve, its all a bunch of blobs who play monopoly in the most risk adverse means possible.

        September 19, 2017 at 11:57 AM
        • So what you’re saying is what is good for the game is to retain and provide a safe haven for people who continually threaten people with IRL consequences if they do something to vex them in game?
          Get fucked bro.

          whats good for the game is showing people that the attitude gigx had with threatening people IRL will NEVER be tolerated. And that there’s no amount of “content armour” that can shield you from getting the ban hammer.

          You abide by CCPs EULA (which i might add is a fucking hell of a lot more lenient then most developers EULAs) or you get fucked.

          plz also remember that gigx had specifically denied corps that wanted to leave co2 with the ability to utilise forts to jf their stuff out of their space in impass, so going the route of ‘if corps didnt like the style of leadership they can leave amicably’ line is entirely baseless.

          gigx ran co2 like a cult. if you didnt prescribe to the cult 100% you were put into a wicker man and burned with the rest of the cult calling you a heretic and toeing the line that gigx wanted them to toe.

          September 19, 2017 at 12:10 PM
          • GS Total Newbie Gee

            Why is reading so fucking hard? Apparently You lack comprehension skills. If you’re too brain-dead to understand what warranted means You should probably refrain from trying to shitpost. Is Goons Dead? No fucktard it isn’t. So I guess an outright military victory wasn’t achieved, even when financed illegally to do so?

            September 19, 2017 at 1:08 PM
          • Holy shit bro, like 6 different insults on me in one short paragraph, that must be a record for you or something. Either way i think you’re lacking behind many of your peers. You need to up your game somewhat or they’ll start meme’ing you as an example of the cancer thats dumbing down the shitler community.

            Of course i know what ‘warranted’ means. you’re talking to a fucking brit. We invented the language numb nuts. And what YOU dont seem to be grasping is its overall better for the EVE community as a WHOLE, a united complete singular community (are you understanding I’m talking about ALL players here, not just your little tribe or the big blue donut or the guys in highsec who dont participate in nullsec block wars etc..) that NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE, you dont take in game grievances and translate them to out of game threats / harassment.

            I’d rather play a game in my spare time in a cold war like state, then play a game where someone i wrong in game for content decides to doxx me , harass every social media platform i go on and/or starts to actually harass me IRL.

            Honestly it sounds like to me that the latter is the game you wanna play, and if you feel like thats the kind of EVE Online you want to prescribe to then you can fuck right off.

            September 19, 2017 at 3:45 PM
        • Arrendis GS Total Newbie

          And I think having someone in the game who makes RL death threats is bad for the game, especially when he does so in a high-profile way like threatening to *go to the next CSM summit* (or hire someone to go there) to carry them out. Thus, his ban is good for the game.

          September 19, 2017 at 1:18 PM
          • GS Total Newbie Arrendis

            And yet again. While his ban was warranted, in keeping with Erick’s Belief that “the Dissolution of CO2 is Good for EVE” has nothing to do with GigX’s ban. CO2 dissolving and entities within going to a blob in the game has done utterly nothing for the game. These renegade fly by the seat of your pants alliances like CO2 are far better for the game than the 2 blue blobs are.

            September 19, 2017 at 1:51 PM
          • Arrendis GS Total Newbie

            CO2’s dissolution is a direct result of the ban. It’s impossible to separate them and say ‘removing gigX is good for the game, but the inevitable result of that is bad’.

            Maybe instead of ‘going to a blob’, the players who so adored gigX will form their own groups, build up multiple cores of like-minded devil-may-care players, and result in the proliferation of more conflict, like a nova stimulating star formation across multiple clouds of gas. The long-term effects are still up in the air. In the short term? Yeah. CO2 collapsing because CCP wouldn’t excuse inexcusable behavior is not bad for the game.

            September 19, 2017 at 2:32 PM
  • Deni'z Von

    This is very half coocked an obvious propaganda article. The thing is no one wrote a story from Aryth pov, where is his interview? We only saw Judge lame comments that he tired of gigx and feel sorry for line members that is why he decided to twist the knife into CO2 as deep as he could. That’s a wired. He could just leave them and join goons. He could just steal gigx stuff not the entire alliance.

    He just cut the multiple throats under the “that would be healthy for CO2” moto. And that is exactly – we here to ruin your game behaviour.

    But I agree that revenge is something you couldn’t deny and gigx made a biggest mistake to forget about it and it did hit him like a ⚡ in the middle of the night.

    September 18, 2017 at 8:53 PM
    • DickDastardly Deni'z Von

      Well the Kotaku article does have the story from Aryths perspective, direct quotes from him and even a photo of him wearing a mask and a hat and he was also live for 2 1/2 hours of podcasts here (Talking in Stations and The Meta Show) so I think his side of it has been pretty well covered. It even mentions this in the last line of the article you’re commenting on.

      September 18, 2017 at 10:07 PM
    • Rhivre Deni'z Von

      Aryth was on Talking In Stations last weekend, and he was on the Meta show too.
      The Judge was on talking in stations the day that it happened.

      September 19, 2017 at 8:46 AM
    • Mintaki Deni'z Von

      It helps if you actually attempt to gather more information, maybe ask some questions, before you make a statement that is blatantly untrue. There were, as Rhivre stated, all parties involved interviewed. Some of them multiple times.

      It’s true that TheJudge had many options, and several of them he stated (some he clarified later). Others, I believe, he keeps to himself. I remember one of this comments being that he didn’t do this for the line members but directly because of how gigX treated him and insinuated during this same conversation that his goal was to “take CO2 behind the shed and put it out of its misery,” which sparing the line members entirely wouldn’t have been conducive to accomplishing, in my opinion. I think that’s a large part of why he didn’t. He may have even cared about the line members, but not more than accomplishing his goal to put an end to CO2, obviously.

      As for the whole “Goons are here to ruin your game” narrative, you’re just preaching and reiterating some other idiots unoriginal claims that have never been proven through either words or actions. If we were really here to ruin the game, we would be ruining our own fun, it’s simply counter-intuitive and a very stupid argument that people who have no substance for the hate they throw at Goons to resort to when they’re short on any other material.

      September 21, 2017 at 2:33 AM
      • Deni'z Von Mintaki

        Wait what? TheJudge was only thinking of himself and his name in that story his ego and selfish his lad pic. You should be much naive thinking if you cut the throat of CO2’s head the entire body would keep going. This is what was making this alli sort of different from any others, why do you blame gigx for acting as the only one in charge, he had a full right for that since it was his creature. And pilots who followed him all those years was fine with that model.

        Just rephrase it to the current meta – if you are not doughnut fuck you.

        September 23, 2017 at 10:37 AM
  • Vertigoe

    Gigx did not get banned by any action of The Imperium or The Judge, he got banned because of his own actions. If he had accepted the fate that was laid out before him we would be talking a different story about how co2 is going to rebuild etc., instead he killed his alliance by his own actions no one else.

    September 18, 2017 at 9:28 PM
    • Deni'z Von Vertigoe

      Permaban and great thief alli are different things, gigx didn’t kill alliance and he was well provoked by Judge/Aryth whoever was behind his back.

      September 19, 2017 at 4:05 AM
      • Arrendis Deni'z Von

        gigX did, in fact, kill his alliance. By his own words at the Wednesday emergency alliance meeting. He told the line members he wasn’t going to close the alliance, but that he considered it dead, and they should find a new home. Nobody stepped up to take over. The one guy someone suggested should take over responded by expressly refusing it.

        gigX purged the leadership cadre over the last 18 months, bit by bit, and he made the final decision in this instance. People can spin it all they want, but gigX is the guy who said ‘no, it’s dead, go somewhere else’.

        September 19, 2017 at 5:45 AM
        • Deni'z Von Arrendis

          Dead not killed he just confirmed the current status. But hey reading the article is more likely it was well planned revenge not the one person failure. So who is the who in that story – did goons killed gigx who closed this community or gigx headshot himself and goons just 3rdparty on that?

          September 19, 2017 at 6:45 AM
          • Arrendis Deni'z Von

            gigX’s actions being predictable do not make them any less his actions. The alliance is dead because it was a cult of personality around him, and he made decisions that killed it. To say he’s not responsible for his own decisions and actions is infantilizing him. Provoked or just predicted, he’s still a goddamned adult and he knows damned well whether or not threatening someone’s life and/or well-being is acceptable behavior.

            September 19, 2017 at 1:22 PM
  • Bill

    Trust is a commodity alright. You managed to find someone who didn’t deserve any and exploited his lack of character by promising who knows what. Turds of a feather flock together, I guess.

    Biggest thing to happen in Eve? If you say so, I guess. To me, it’s a space ship game. I log in when I want, and fly around in a space ship. I have neither the time nor the inclination to play the game you’re playing.

    September 18, 2017 at 10:09 PM
  • der_Yoda

    You want to remove crazy, arrogant leadership?
    Start digging in your own alliance…

    September 19, 2017 at 4:47 AM
  • Maynar Dragneel

    Next time, try writing without the self righteous attitude. 🙂

    September 19, 2017 at 5:41 AM
  • Frans Bovens

    He ran an awsome allaince. Proud members, content rich and a driver for drama. Eve will miss co2, as eve needs co2 like allainces. I take my hat off for what he build. Till it went wrong, one mistake will wash away all that good and will be the thing rememberd. Anyone who can field a force he did for years has doem something unique a thing which many rl compagnies fail too achieve, commitment from its employees. And even ow he s been taken down by cco cause of his actions, i asume many co2 pilots are thankfull for what he has given them over the years. Sad of what happened, and hopefully for eve, ready to move on. Just cause something went wrong, it doesnt have to mean it wasnt a kick ass ride.

    September 19, 2017 at 4:53 PM
  • Mintaki

    That’s a very sad and juvenile stance, because all Goonswarm members are simply bad people that have no character and deserve your infantile rage, right?

    September 21, 2017 at 3:04 AM