9-4RP2: From the eyes of a semi-newbie


January 23, 2018, 21:51:10 UTC—My Jackdaw fleet just received orders from leadership to jump to 9-4RP2.

For the better part of the evening, we were roaming from Delve to the vicinity of 9-4. We had managed to score a few kills, even faced off against a small neutral fleet…For 30 seconds until they warped off, at least. We had fun, we were organised.

But everything changed when we jumped to 9-4RP2.

Facing off against time

I had participated in the first armor-timer, but this TiDi shocked me. After being inside the jump-tunnel for approximately fifteen minutes, I landed 1,000,000km from the gate, with a few members of my fleet. We we’re the lucky ones, because the numbers in our fleet were dropping fast due to disconnects while jumping.

At exactly 22:12:10 I was warping to a citadel as ordered. When landing four minutes later, I noticed that the few members of my fleet on grid had gone ahead and warped to the Keepstar, in order to get on the killmail. Comms were in chaos, and numbers were dropping, so they had the time.

I decided to do the same. At 22:49:01 I had the Keepstar targeted, and was cycling one of my guns. I flew to a friend of mine, who I soon discovered was a member of an enemy alliance, and I wanted to welp to him.

It didn’t matter. The rest of my guns, grouped, wouldn’t activate, and at 23:40, 50 minutes after attacking the Keepstar, I was back in warp to the Fortizar where the FC was.

And then I disconnected. Knowing that I wouldn’t be able to login, I was going to bed.

If you think this is a bad experience, then try being one the carriers having their fighters bugged out, and slowly seeing that the repair timer was ticking away.

And now an opinion

Avree of Hoover Inc. described it well on Reddit. He said that CCP cheated everyone out of a fun fight, and I agree.

I have been playing MMO’s since I was just a child—literally playing MMOs like RuneScape before I could tie my own shoes, and leading WoW Raids on Black Temple while I was in elementary school…Fortunately without comms.

I have experienced the ups and downs of those games over the years, but never have I seen a game with such an ignorant publisher, and such fundamentally broken mechanics.

In my 3 months in Goonswarm, I have been on exactly nine fleets. In those nine fleets, I had only one propped fleet fight: a Welp Fleet with Clavo Oxadido. I was part of a small engagement in DaBigRedBoat’s “strategic peacetime destroyer fleet” in a stream a month and a half ago. You can see me get a few kills in around 5 minutes. I don’t blame Goonswarm, I’d rather blame the enemies we pay a visit to, all docking up and without a response-fleet.

So I chose to liquidate my assets, except one Jackdaw, and I’ll be quiting soon, unless anyone here knows a way to get fun fleet fights, with an actual undocked enemy fleet.

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  • von Zott

    I don’t understand you, i’m in this aliance less than 2 months, i was involved in 6 ops (fleets) and killed more than 20 ships with fleet

    January 24, 2018 at 7:12 PM
    • Maccie von Zott

      This comment is kind of an example of what I mean. 6 ops and 20 kills. So an average of 3,3 kills per op. Just as boring as killing a rorqual, imho.

      January 25, 2018 at 11:10 AM
      • Axhind Maccie

        EVE is really not the instant gratification no stakes games like basically any other game on the planet. EVE is all about strategy and meaning to the fights and their impact.

        If you are into instant gratification thing either join some pirates who’s actions are completely meaningless or play another game.

        January 26, 2018 at 11:47 PM
      • von Zott Maccie

        you can always take 5 or 10 friends and go roaming 20-30-40 systems, especially in low-sec (most players there are not in precaution like players that live in null-sec) and you will have a lot of fights and kills…. It is YOU who dictate your gaming, not corp/ally/coalition…

        January 29, 2018 at 10:40 AM
  • try lowsec? go to Old Man Star/Rancer etc, you’ll get all the content you want.

    January 24, 2018 at 7:59 PM
  • Casey Patterson

    I completely understand your sentiment. I was in goonswarm for around 2 months, did a couple ops, but after the keepstar battle in Auga I was burnt out and wanted to quit.

    So I did quit, for a couple weeks before I couldn’t help myself and I logged back in to EVE, for better or for worse. From there I joined a PVP group called Aideron Robotics, and have been there ever since, 135 days and counting. I’ve never had so much fun as I’ve had here, PVP fleets almost every day, all the fights you could dream of, and fun engagements, not people just warping off to retreat.

    If you’re interested drop me a line in this discord here: http://bit.ly/FEDUPDiscord

    Don’t get burnt out, get content.

    January 24, 2018 at 8:38 PM
  • Cal

    See ya ?

    January 24, 2018 at 9:32 PM
  • Wigitgetit

    What are you talking about? I have been in KarmaFleet for a few months and I have been on an average 10 fleets a month (could’ve been more). Sure a couple of times people have punked out, but we always found a fight. We have people that come to Delve and roam daily. Content and fights delivered on a platter.

    January 24, 2018 at 9:37 PM
    • Maccie Wigitgetit

      In that case I must have a lot of bad luck, because for me those “couple of times” are more like 75% of the time, and even that engagement with DaBigRedBoat was more like slaughtering ventures, as they were too surprised to react.

      You can call that a fight, but 30 seconds of fighting doesn’t really make all the roaming worth it.

      January 25, 2018 at 11:06 AM
      • Viscat De McVakarr Maccie

        Just join a Delve defence fleet, and kill hotdroppers, hunters – either solo or in a small group. We have plenty of content, you just need to find them. Anyway, 98 days till my 15 years vet cape in Runescape 🙂

        January 25, 2018 at 12:45 PM
  • Kyeudo

    Sounds like my experiences during 6VDT. My best achievement there was jamming an interceptor off my tail.

    Of course, I thought that was a lot of fun compared to non-TIDI fleets, but I’m weird like that. I like having the time to think.

    January 24, 2018 at 10:47 PM
  • I, too, hate and resent the design of EVE’s current sov and structure systems. But the other parts you’re complaining about (massive lag, general breakdown in server performance, inability to log in, etc) have been features of EVE since the beginning of time. The only things that’ve changed are the player counts required to trigger the events, and the fact that nodes don’t seem to crash anymore (which is probably a less-desirable behavior, since instead of kicking everyone off, they now just disconnect or render inoperable random swathes of players).

    January 25, 2018 at 12:54 AM
    • Maccie Ganthrithor

      What you say is true, and most of the mechanics aren’t the ones I’m mad about. I don’t have anything against tidi or those things, even citadel timers aren’t *that* bad in my opinion, but if you combine those two, you just get one giant bug, can’t call it anything other than that.

      Until a month ago I joined, after a small period of getting settled in, 2 fleets a week, the most my work-schedule could allow, but after the last 3 fleets I had, consisted of roaming somewhere and getting a few kills from people not even retaliating… Sorry, but I wouldn’t call it content if it doesn’t have a challenge: I’d call it grinding.

      January 25, 2018 at 11:22 AM
      • Asia Park Maccie

        Don’t be mad just go find some content where you don’t need someone holding your hand. Have you ever tried solo?

        January 26, 2018 at 8:01 PM
      • I’m really not trying to be mean, but (again) that’s how EVE has been since forever.

        I started my first EVE account in 2006. I joined Goonswarm and moved to the South (nullsec) in 2007. I was a university student then. The first thing I did was try my hand at nullsec PvE (my roommate and I were playing together, and we’d tag-team Angel BS rats in light-missile Caracals and thought we were ~*rolling in cash*~ making almost 500k isk EACH every five minutes :P). Then one day somebody rolled up in a Vagabond ganked our Caracals. I thought extracting some revenge would be fun, so I grabbed a shitfit Rifter and joined a roaming gang the next day to go shoot back at the assholes who’d blown up my cruiser.

        You know what most gangs were like? They consisted of a lot of gate jumps (sometimes hundreds), a lot of chasing after people but not catching them, a bit of totally one-sided ganking when we did catch people, and then either gating all the way home or running into a much bigger defense gang and being summarily executed.

        Unless you’re fighting over a strategic objective (read: alliance- or bloc- level targets), or participating in some kind of pre-arranged gudfite, that’s what EVE PvP is: blueballs and ganking.

        It sounds like you’re pretty new to EVE; unfortunately for you, you’ve joined up at a period in the game’s history where strategic conflict is at an all-time low, so if regular fleet-vs-fleet battles are what you are looking for, EVE is not currently in a position to deliver. This is because CCP lost the plot on game design when former-lead-game-designer CCP Soundwave quit the CCP team years ago. Basically every change they’ve introduced since has been dogshit for strategic gameplay: they’ve taken away or significantly nerfed lots of the things alliances used to fight over, then actively tried to ensure people couldn’t move around to help their friends, and converted the sov system into a griefing game that replaced strategic battles with games of whack-a-mole mostly involving small fleets of interceptors running around trying alternately to shoot or protect a handful of dudes in shitfit T1 cruisers playing a “hacking game” that consists of orbiting a beacon while allowing one module to cycle repeatedly.

        TL;DR: a lot of things have gotten shittier over the years. EVE doesn’t really provide grand fights anymore (as you can see: even on the incredibly-rare occasions where people form up for one over an arbitrary, strategically-irrelevant goal, mechanics ensure it doesn’t actually precipitate a fight). If you came for the grand space battles, that era has (sadly) come and gone. The frequent blue-balling interspersed with ganking that has always defined smaller-scale PvP in EVE persists, although it can certainly be argued that the blueball aspect is more present than ever given the proliferation of travel ships for the risk-averse.

        January 28, 2018 at 6:52 AM
  • Rammel Kas

    There lies the rub of it. You can try lowsec groups all you like as well but they don’t get what they want either all the time despite their fanciest recruitment pitches.

    EVE is not an instanced style MMO where it will be there for you each and every time. (These usually handle a pre-queue FOR you out of other people with your interest, who will magically get sent your way into a defined or limited map.) It depends what OTHER people happen to have in mind from their patch in the sandbox. You will likely get better experiences if you adjust your expectations and outlook to work around this problem. And that of setting out an appropriate bait. This is the base genius you have to have and it starts with your own mindset.

    And sometimes the game or game mechanics can break. We had that in 9-4 where the server CPU we were on was already reinforced such that CCP could do but we still broke prior records and their current architecture failed on this fight. Older players will tell you this can indeed happen, and has in the past. But we are a lot further down that envelope than we were and credit to CCP it was all good until we went more than a factor above the prior records. So… even the best lure and bait in the world won’t guarantee a nice experience if that’s your way of approaching this.

    January 25, 2018 at 11:04 AM
  • Michael Ward

    OK a few points a note.
    1- Tidi is a fuck load better than it used to be and before Tidi the whole server would crash.
    2- 9 fleets in 3 months? I get a fuck load more action than that in wormholes and I’m fucking Au tz witch gimps me for content I sugest changing groups or finding a different erea to fly in.
    And finally CCP are not ignorant. This is the first time Citadels have been involved in something like this.
    Some large problems arose and they will be fixed so don’t count them out honestly your whole write up makes you sound like you don’t know that much.

    January 25, 2018 at 11:22 AM
  • Asia Park

    Perhaps it’s best you leave and focus on real life for a while. Put down the Twinkies, leave your parents basement, stop associating with people like the goons, and find a job. You’ll feel much better about yourself. I wish you fare winds and following seas o7

    January 25, 2018 at 12:29 PM
    • Maccie Asia Park

      Since I have a full-time job and the house I live in has no basement, I advise you to stop projecting your personal situation on me or other goons.

      And don’t use that “o7”. You’re embarrassing yourself.

      January 25, 2018 at 8:27 PM
  • Caleb Ayrania

    IF this is the culmination of your 3 months “stay” I do understand you rage-quitting. There are many things wrong in EVE that needs fixing, and sadly a long time we have not had a lot of focus on solving these important issues. YOu should however reconsider and stick around a while longer, because I do suspect CCP will finally get around to focusing where it matters, and will eventually make them money.

    January 25, 2018 at 3:16 PM
  • Thomas Hagan

    9 Fleets in 3 months very little overall, Sigs would definitely be a better suit for you it seems. It’s definitely hit or miss, some days you can go out and get on literally tons of kills, 20-30+, some days you come back with 1. It definitely varies and isn’t always consistent. Just depends if you’re there at the right time and right place. But never handed to you on a silver platter. Also a big thing about a sandbox game

    January 25, 2018 at 6:48 PM
  • Rolfski

    It’s a misconception thinking this is only the enemy here refusing to engage. Whether it’s risk-adverse warfare or weaponized boredom, the idea to screw the fun and deny your enemy the fight he wants is a widely used concept in all of Eden. In fact, when it comes to the latter, it’s actually goons who popularized and perfected it.
    People’s tendency to blow up space ships only when they’re certain they’ll win is a reality you simply have to deal with in this game. In that regard, it doesn’t really matter with whom you’re flying. You might as well stick with the alliance that has the best SRP program in the game.

    There are ways around it though. For now, I would suggest doing the following before rejoining fleet warfare:
    1. Fit 10 frigates
    2. Blow them all up in Faction Warfare
    3. Learn & repeat, it’s quite fun actually
    This should get you enough short term action to renew your interest in the game again. After that, re-evaluate what you want to get out of fleet warfare and ask around for advice, both inside and outside your alliance.

    January 26, 2018 at 5:38 PM
  • Arcadia Kain

    During peacetime, I pulled about 15+ fleets a month. During the Hakonen deployment, I was pulling 5+ fleets a DAY. After Hakonen died down and things at home got slow, I decided to take a break. A few months later, here I am firing up my accounts again and easing myself back into things.
    Eve content is feast or famine. For a combat pilot like myself, who has little desire for PVE, being in an organization like the Imperium is perfect because I can have a few months of downtime, burn myself out on other games, and boot myself back up whenever big actions start on eve.
    Something to keep in mind about huge battles like this one; CCP does the best they can to make the best hardware available for these fights. With all the recent updates and new mechanics, it is ONLY when these fight happen that CCP has the chance to see where certain problems are, and sit down and bang out ways to fix them.
    Hakonen shed light on MANY issues that needed to be looked into. Im sure this battle was no different. The problem is, that these battles don’t happen that often.
    And, if you think CCP is ignorant, then you must not know how they work to solve these issues. CPMs are actual players (as a goon, or should know who some of these guys are…many of them were involved in this fight) who CCP sits down with to discuss these problems that are brought to their attention by the playerbase. Most game companies do not even both with this level of player interaction.
    Sounds to me like you didn’t get the experience you expected, and are overreacting, rather than looking for a real solution.
    Join a SIG, man!

    January 27, 2018 at 5:55 AM
  • Montesinos Quixote

    Excellent post! I loved this article, and I think it mirrors what a lot of us are feeling after the battle. I’ve been playing eve since 2010, and mmorpgs since the 80’s when the were called MUDS and were text only. There’s a lot of great ideas in this thread too. I’m not a professional coder or game designer, but have some non professional experience there, and I would pose a challenge at this point:

    Is there another game or universe that’s has eve’s level of sandbox where so many players can go at it together contesting control of resources in a more effective fashion? With all its problems I do feel eve Is still 10 years later on the cutting edge when it comes to large groups interacting together online. I do think this is a historical moment for eve and for online interactivity. There were failures, sure, but that we get this far into it is also something that presents a particular amazing challenge on how to be more successful in coding and employing appropriate hardware for the next event! If ccp doesn’t do it first someone else will pickup the torch and carry it forwards.

    January 28, 2018 at 6:48 PM