Why the New Cyno Changes are Amazing

General Thade 2019-08-16

On August 15, CCP announced a new change that will be coming to standard Cynosural Field Generators and Jump Freighters in their “Era of Chaos”. The change had two parts, which were “Cynosural Field Generator I can only be fit by Force Recon Ships and Black Ops Battleships” and “Jump Freighters can jump to Covert Cynosural Fields”. While both are huge changes to the game, the main change is to regular cynos, and it will be the one I am talking about today. 

First off, this change is amazing. The three major aspects why are: 

  1. It adds risk to lighting a cyno 
  2. Capital ships can’t light cynos 
  3. It takes much more work and risk to add caps to fight 

The Reasoning

The first reason is the most obvious one. Most cyno lighting ships are either cheap industrials that are in the 10-20mil isk range, or its a rookie ship with the only cost being the actual module and fuel. No one cared if their cyno ships died, because it was likely that they were going to die so the fits were made cheap. Having to sit for a few minutes in space completely vulnerable to attack with a giant “come kill me” beacon on the overview of everyone in system would obviously drive players to find cheap cyno ships, and I frankly think that has been abused for a while. Now, you either put a Force Recon or Black Ops on that kill me beacon, which are both very expensive ships for their class with relatively low tank. This will force players to either defend their cynos or be very careful about when are where they activate this module.  

The second reason is that Capital ships will no longer be able to light cynos. When small gangs or even large sized fleets come across ratting or mining capitals and want to attack there is a huge risk of being dropped on by enemy caps, and if you fly a ratting or mining capital then you most likely have a cyno fitted just for this reason. Not only is it pretty overpowered to have your target ship, which most likely has millions of EHP, also be the ship you have to kill to prevent a fleet of 100 dreads coming through and killing your group, but it made it so groups of caps would have groups of cynos, making it extremely hard to kill. There are still ways currently for attacking groups to get around this such as cyno inhibs, but if the capital pilots are paying attention they can make the inhib pointless. 

Third reason is now it takes risk to add caps to fights. In the past, it was either another capital having a cyno, or a cheap ship as mentioned before. Now, you have to add an expensive ship with low HP (remember, some of these ships have fits that cost as much as capitals) to go to fight, and these ships are fairly uncommon so it will most likely take longer for them to show up. Cap escalation won’t be easy and cheap anymore. All of these reasons help reduce how OP capital ships are in low and nullsec, and overall are much better for the game. 

Other Thoughts

Some other things to point out is these ships require high SP amounts to fly, which means less cynos. I think this could have the partial effect of having more non-ratting or mining capital deaths due to more caps using stargates to get around instead of cynos, if the region they are in or the alliance they are with has a low population/infrastructure. Also, these ships were very rarely used in the game until this change, and overall it’s positive for them to see more use. 

On the topic of other things, a few people have been requesting a special edition cyno (or something like it) that has no navigational use/purpose, but can still be used as a memorial token for our fallen capsuleers. CCP Falcon responded to on the EVE-O discussion thread, saying that he wholeheartedly agrees with the idea, and feels that making memorials for fallen pilots is a very important to him, and he will bring this idea to the attention of the game design team. CCP Rise then followed up to say that this was a thing that the design team missed when putting the changes together, but they will work to create an alternative pilots can use to create the traditional in-game memorial events.

 

In conclusion, this new change is a great feature to the game. It will make null less safe overall, which I think is CCP’s main goal for the whole “Era of Chaos”. While the overall reaction to this change is mixed, with half of the players saying they hate it and the other half saying it’s the best change to happen in a while, we have to recognize that while this might not be good for certain groups, this is generally extremely positive and the right step forward in balancing the game.

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Comments

  • chimpy

    Do you guys realise how much one science fiction book is leading CCP Right now? Hilmar gave an interview on talking in stations where CCP let slip that the Triglavians were inspired by the science fiction book The Three Body Problem by Cixin Liu. I started listening to the English version on audible to find out what’s in CCP’s minds. The “Era of Chaos” is the bit I am listening to right now. Eve’s Era of Chaos is true to the book’s Era of Chaos. If you want to know where CCP is taking Eve, all the guiding principals CCP are following are in this one book.

    August 16, 2019 at 3:42 pm
    • I started reading that as well after Hilmar mentioned it. Having seen what the Eras of Chaos in the book are compared to what CCP is attempting, I am ready to question Hilmar’s reading comprehension skills.

      August 16, 2019 at 3:52 pm
      • The Era of Chaos in the book ( as far as I have listened up to ) seriously fuck with the normal expected rules of physics – everything we think we know goes out of the window – This is exatcly what CCP is doing. It really shakes thing up, just staying safe/alive is hard work. The method is different but the end effect sounds exactly the same.

        August 16, 2019 at 3:56 pm
        • So when most players in the book opt for dehydration to essentially opt out of the eras of chaos we can read that as Hilmar trying to drive players to become alpha clones?

          August 16, 2019 at 4:13 pm
          • Erick Asmock Wilhelm Arcturus

            No. walk away. They just walk away.

            August 16, 2019 at 4:15 pm
    • Scott Wilson chimpy

      : )

      It’s an amazing story. Amazon has the rights, and are planning to make it the next Game of Thrones. Hope they don’t mess it up.

      August 16, 2019 at 4:09 pm
      • chimpy Scott Wilson

        Didn’t know that. Thank you. Better get listening to the rest 🙂

        August 16, 2019 at 4:17 pm
    • Raven2019 chimpy

      It’s all bullshit, do you know how long and often ccp lies about shit, just to say later…it takes much effort and work… excuses..the game and company are just scam artist.. broke ass promises.

      August 18, 2019 at 12:58 am
  • Scott Wilson

    Hmmm.

    So I should be making a nullsec “cyno sniper” fit for something appropriate like a naga or nado or apoc. 100km. Warp, start shooting.

    August 16, 2019 at 4:08 pm
    • Guilford Australis Scott Wilson

      Anti-cyno doctrines just got a lot easier for the major blocs. We don’t even have to think anymore about which ship(s) might be cyno-bait.

      August 17, 2019 at 8:10 pm
  • Devilish Ledoux

    Yes, wormhole guy. Tell us more about how you think other people should play Eve.

    August 16, 2019 at 4:53 pm
    • Aderoth Anstian Devilish Ledoux

      It’s not about forcing on NS players a way to play. It’s about reducing the safety of NS. The amount of isk available to NS is obscene compared to its relative risk. An easy way to start fixing this is to disable perfect intelligence via local. Now changes to cynos are continuing that trend. Is a “wormhole guy” way more comfortable with no local than a NS player who has never or very rarely been without perfect intelligence? Yes they probably are. Doesn’t mean they are happy or trying to “force” a playstyle on you.

      August 17, 2019 at 11:13 pm
      • You put “force” in quotes. Who are you quoting? Devilish never said anything about forcing anything. You entitled asshats who can’t learn to counterplay cry when daddy CCP doesn’t fix shit for you. Devilish is implying that a wormholer wouldn’t know what he’s talking about. They can’t get dropped via cyno, they have no local, there are few entrances to their systems, and thus it is quite a bit safer and takes fewer people to monitor that safety than it does in NS. NS players have played by CCP rules and mechanics and they’ve done it in a way to make resource gathering relatively safe. The amount of isk available has nothing to do with it. You’re just another moron with another idea about how to fix this game. The bottom line is when one player, like you, sees that others are doing it better, your entitled ass get’s angry that you can’t have the same shit because your group refuses to engage in appropriate counter play. You are so blind to the ideas that form your assertion that you aren’t aware that you are doing the same thing Devilish Ledoux accused the author of…trying to opine on another’s game play style when yours does not give you the experience to comment on it nor does it appear you know anything or care enough to do anything about countering it. Why must you reduce the safety of NS? Do you think NS players will not find a way to readjust and achieve the same level of safety we have now (that level of safety btw is created by the presence of corp/alliance members who choose to participate in rescue and response efforts)? Your response is full of assumption and arrogance and I can speak for a lot of nulsec players who think you people that “have all the answers” are full of shit, every time, all the time. Learn to counter-play and perhaps you’ll reduce the level of safety in NS to your liking.

        Bottom line, the author is a wormholer making the argument that something is good when it isn’t. The larger nulblocs and entities that can defend their cyno will have fewer problems that those that are smaller and cannot. You are an embarrassment to yourself, your corp, and to this game. Harden the fuck up and quit your crying about things you do not understand fully.

        August 18, 2019 at 12:13 am
        • Aderoth Anstian Timmy

          lol I’ve lived in both NS and wormholes. I found both to be fun and challenging though in different ways. I do think NS players will adjust, especially larger blocs, but it won’t be the same level of safety.

          August 18, 2019 at 2:44 pm
          • Garreth Vlox Aderoth Anstian

            It also won’t be the same level of threat, these risk averse groups dropping on ratters aren’t going to risk a 300 mill+ ship that might get volley’d the second it decloaks to drop dreads on ratters, which means they are going to be bringing nothing but covop fleets.

            August 22, 2019 at 6:53 am
      • Garreth Vlox Aderoth Anstian

        “The amount of isk available to NS is obscene compared to its relative risk.”
        Like the risk of being able to lose ships and materials in build worth 10’s of billions when a structure is popped? Like the ability to lose 10’s of billions worth of system upgrades and the effects of months if not years of sov payments if your space is taken? What risk exactly do you think Null doesn’t have? Caps and supers are killed under umbrellas all the time, ratters and miners were killed even when there was local daily. This whole “nullsec needs more risk” thing is a creation of small gang roamers angry they can’t kill a carrier or roq they find with a nano gang.

        August 18, 2019 at 12:54 am
        • As a member of the proverbial nano gang, he’s not ~*entirely*~ wrong for bitching about lack of targets: CCP have gone to extreme lengths to make it absurdly difficult to catch small ships. Their ship meta that focuses everyone into either very small or very large (capital) ships is really toxic to the small-gang gameplay. It’s difficult to blame gankers for wanting to be able to kill big stuff when CCP let people put Upwell structures fucking everywhere and people can cross whole regions just by transitioning through co-located Keepstar/Ansiblex/Stargate combos. In EVE 2019 capitals are practically the only things you can actually catch, because they’re the only thing people undock to actually do activities that place them out in unprotected areas of space.

          THAT SAID, the cyno changes are fucking garbage and anyone with half a brain should be able to figure that out. I have no idea what is wrong with their developers: the problem was never the fact that “it was too easy to cyno” unless you’re arguing about cyno pilots being able to traverse gatecamps, in which case simply putting a cruiser-level powergrid requirement on the cyno module would have fixed the problem entirely (cruiser-sized stuff is pretty easy to catch unless it’s a T3, and those should just be deleted anyway).

          The real problem isn’t “the availability of cynos was making caps oppressive,” the problem is that CCP are fucking retards who designed themselves into a corner by making capitals the best ships for pretty much every task in the game that can’t be handled by a frigate or destroyer hull. Remove HAW guns, remove FAX, re-work supercapitals to be logistics (as in, doing useful community functions, not “shoots repair beams”) focused powerhouses instead of the end-game of combat hulls. Adjust how PvE works to reward ship attributes other than DPS: right now the name of the game is, “sit in one place while rats spawn on top of you and kill them as fast as possible.” Spread the NPCs around. Force ships to move around to make money. Boom, capitals aren’t gonna be used for PvE anymore.

          But CCP are fucking lazy, inept morons who’d rather just restrict cynos to purpose-built alts flying 300m isk ships, and anyone who isn’t lighting cynos under their own FAX umbrella can get fucked and pay 300m per beacon, because that’s a great way to inspire people to go out and do things in your gameworld.

          August 18, 2019 at 3:00 am
        • Aderoth Anstian Garreth Vlox

          Endless havens make those 10s of billions chump change.

          August 18, 2019 at 2:15 pm
          • Guilford Australis Aderoth Anstian

            Anomaly spawns were nerfed months ago, and even prior to that it would have taken six months to make $10B running Havens in a VNI. Sure, you could save up for a Nidhoggur and cut that time in half, but what’s the motivation for new guys to do that now?

            August 18, 2019 at 2:36 pm
      • You’re a fucking idiot.

        With no local in nullsec, it’s literally impossible to mitigate risk. Nullsec is not wormhole space: there are significantly more ways into and out of nullsec systems, and you can be hotdropped in nullsec systems. Are you actually going to suggest that players should maintain 24/7 watch over every single stargate in their space and keep running lists of hand-written notes about who was seen entering which systems at which times? Because that’s what it would take to keep yourself “safe” in nullsec. Literally one person loses eyes on one gate for thirty seconds, one Prospect or bomber or whatever slips in, and now you’re looking at getting 50-100 dudes in stealth bombers spontaneously appearing in system whenever they feel like it with absolutely zero warning. These bomber gangs can kill capital ships in less than a minute, to say nothing of what they will do to anything smaller. Please explain to me how it is ~ever~ safe to field any PvE ships at all under these circumstances?

        CCP are basically doing everything short of deleting capital ships right now to force (yes, force) people not to use them for PvE, after spending years milking cash out of their playerbase by heavily incentivizing them to skill-inject and PLEX their way into capital ships for PvE.

        Yes, the amount of resources you can farm with capitals in nullsec IS obscene, but you know who designed it that way? Fucking CCP, when everybody and their goddamn dog TOLD THEM AT THE TIME IT WAS A STUPID FUCKING IDEA. They made the decision to stick limitless resource nodes that were eminently farm-able by capitals into the game. THEY decided to make carriers do 2000 DPS and be able to kill anything down to frigate size. THEY decided to re-work the Rorqual into a ridiculous mining powerhouse.

        They did it because it made them a ton of money by encouraging everybody to spend their way into “endgame” PvE setups. Now their greed has totally wrecked the in-game economy and caused nullsec-wide geopolitcal stagnation. Now CCP appear and hand out fifty capital PvE nerfs followed by “you can’t have local” and “you can’t call for help”: the Rorqual was already fucking useless after the local nerf because you literally can not field excavator drones anymore, and now they’re going to charge everyone 300m per cyno to move around and making it so you need a dedicated cyno character to stalk your own capital ships around in order to summon help, all because they’re too fucking timid or too lazy to correct the core elements of their game mechanics that encouraged this behavior in the first place. They won’t delete Rorquals, they’ll just make it literally impossible not to lose billion-isk drones while you’re mining. They won’t re-design PvE so that smaller ships are more suited to it than capitals, or re-design capitals themselves: they’ll just make it cost 300m isk per cyno plus having an alt character to move them around. And all to please a bunch of fucking autistic green-killboard circlejerking reddit incels: you don’t see fucking covert cynos or blackops bridges or stealth bombers getting nerfs. I suppose they consider teleporting frigate gangs that can murderzone a capital ship in under a minute while the whole fleet costs less than the Rorqual’s drones, “Balanced?” It’s fucking ludicrous.

        August 18, 2019 at 3:20 am
      • That is hilarious coming from near perfect safety for WHs gang. People who’s idea of a good fight is dropping 50 t3s or similar on a single ship and then crying on reddit when friends show up.

        What is amazing is that idiots at CCP are actually listening to the most risk averse group in the game about how all other parts need more risk while at the same time the only stuff they fly is high range super easy disengage comps. Because nothing says elite pvp and risk loving like running away as soon as there you actually have someone shooting back.

        August 18, 2019 at 6:30 pm
        • Guilford Australis Axhind

          This is very true.

          Wormholers rage-roll into two or three regions in nullsec, pray for risk-free ratting or mining targets, and then retreat into the hole (to be rolled again, naturally) if things do not go according to plan… while lecturing nullsec dwellers about how they are too risk-averse. What a joke.

          August 18, 2019 at 9:58 pm
      • Super Duper Aderoth Anstian

        Like many have said before, NS is “safe” due to the people living there, if all our pilots thought that the intel channels get filled with info automatically and none post if they see neuts in a system then the intel system doesn’t work and you would have zero intel.
        So please for the love of god stop bitching that NS is safe, it is relatively safe due to the effort put in by players.

        August 23, 2019 at 10:55 am
    • How is the author wrong?

      August 18, 2019 at 7:19 pm
  • Total Newbie

    Utterly Amazing how you cheer for yet another dumb, fucking mechanic that makes the blue blobs blobbier and inspires no one to fight for anything other than spod rocks. If you want blackout and no local go to a fucking wormhole and enjoy! Instead you jump into the :WAHHHHH we should be able to kill titans with bombers and no risk”!!! Get fucked scrub, crawl back into your hole and leave eve as a sandbox where people can choose how they want to play.

    August 16, 2019 at 5:50 pm
    • chimpy Total Newbie

      lol

      August 16, 2019 at 6:11 pm
    • Aderoth Anstian Total Newbie

      i.e. leave me to my spodrocks and endless havens with little risk but the ability to bring down a hammer to crush all foes who dare oppose me?

      August 17, 2019 at 11:18 pm
      • Exactly who Newbie was talking about…fucks like you that think NS is inherently safe. A group of players made it safe…and this cyno change alters our ability to crush idiots like you. We will figure out a way to continue to kill amateurs like you who think there should be no risk to your game play simply because you ask for it…earn it bitch and you can have it.

        August 18, 2019 at 12:33 am
      • You mean how dare CCP allow thousands of enemy players who’ve invested trillions of isk in ships and man a round-the-clock standing defense fleet keep me from killing whatever I want with my teleporting, cloak-warping frigate that costs less than a hundred mil?

        Oh, right: when you put it that way it sounds pretty dumb!

        “…ALL WHO DARE OPPOSE ME”: because a fifty-man bomber hotdrop gang should be the definition of an unstoppable force lolololol keep trolling.

        August 18, 2019 at 2:45 am
      • Guilford Australis Aderoth Anstian

        And this is why it is so hard to take you people seriously. You have no farking clue what you’re talking about.

        Check the killboard for Delve and see how many Rorquals, Carriers, and supercapitals die every day (and not all of them to stupidity) as people learn the hard way that nullsec is not safe or endlessly profitable like you retards claim.

        August 18, 2019 at 6:44 pm
  • Jason KG5ORD

    I do love the JF covert cyno bit. Guess its time to start recon invention.

    August 17, 2019 at 5:52 am
    • Sylphinja the Dark Rose Jason KG5ORD

      Yeah, i love that change.

      August 18, 2019 at 5:28 pm
  • Alaric Faelen

    One thing that gets lost in all these nerfs is how it affects the lowly casual with his one account.
    All the stuff like ‘safe cyno’ and intel channels allow people that aren’t running a dozen accounts to progress in the game. Specifically capital ships– for most players the barrier to capital ships isn’t isk or SP but willingness to run multiple accounts.
    Everything CCP is doing basically just screws people that aren’t running multiple accounts. It was never recommended to fly a capital without a half dozen scout/cyno/fax alts- but you COULD do it. I used my carriers to run Incursions and move subcaps to the war front….but CCP decided that I shouldn’t have access to capital ships unless I fork out for more accounts apparently.
    All these changes just seem to favor the ‘one man fleet’ of multiboxing over actually using the infrastructure of your alliance. We have a great team of people that put a ton of effort into building an infrastructure that at least for me……worked perfectly to allow me to progress within Eve’s ship lines.
    From the perspective of a lowly line pilot running one account and just trying to play a stupid video game– it was working just fine and no ‘fix’ is needed. Oh they could nerf payouts or spawn rate or something– but instead CCP basically just nuked the last 9 months of training for my character.

    For me the question is really– is Eve fun enough for me to pay for a second account and skill it to fly recons or BLOPS? OR……just stop flying capitals?

    But since CCP is clearly looking to hurt capitals…why in the heck would I pay for that? Zero incentive to ‘adapt’ to bad changes, so CCP won’t get that second (or third) account out of me, I will be cut off from using my capitals for content. Brilliant.

    August 17, 2019 at 6:56 pm
    • Aderoth Anstian Alaric Faelen

      If you’re a line pilot in a decent sized alliance I don’t think you should worry. The logistics teams should already be spitballing how to deal with this change. Move ops will probably be just as before. Just a different and more skill intensive ship on the other end.

      August 17, 2019 at 11:34 pm
      • Alaric Faelen Aderoth Anstian

        True for things like Incursions and move ops. But it makes ratting or even just moving a capital around a real pain. Conveniently cured by throwing more money at CCP. And not even just a cheap (but still omega) cyno alt. Oh no, alts with the SP to fly recons and BLOPS…..so in other words- buy plex to purchase skill injectors- otherwise your stupid cyno alt is going to take months to cook. It was sort of an agreement with CCP- you basically have to have paid alt subs just to fly capitals, but at least those alts could be cheap and ready to use quickly.

        Now it’s even more important to have alts, and those alts need high end skills just to fly the hull. Tinfoil hat in place, this all seems like another way to bilk players. If you want to play with the big boy toys in Eve, it will cost you.

        Because we all know that is the answer. Just create those alts, buy those skill injectors, run that credit card. Multibox a bunch of clients just so you can effectively use one character.

        CCP doesn’t want to make it harder to use capitals. They just want to make it more expensive.

        August 18, 2019 at 3:14 am
    • This fucking cyno change fucks even the people ~*with*~ the alts: literally how am I supposed to do anything with capital ships in an area that’s not covered by my own FAX umbrella? You can’t gate capitals around in hostile space, and now you can’t cyno them around without forking over ~300M per cyno? Guess they never want me to use a suitcase carrier ever again? Guess they don’t want anybody positioning for dreadbombs? Or they just want to tax the shit out of everyone? I really don’t get it. They keep whinging about how people just huddle in their fortress regions and krab and never leave, and then they implement changes that make it completely impractical to ever go anywhere or do anything on your own or in small numbers? What the fuck is wrong with them?

      August 18, 2019 at 3:24 am
  • Raven2019

    Fuck CCP, now I want my money back , extortion assest safety bullshit…your game is dead since everyone left it..fuck u ccp

    August 18, 2019 at 12:54 am
  • Noob

    This change sure has a lot of folks pitching a hissy.

    If you can afford a capital ship, you can afford a recon to cyno to. If you can’t, you can’t afford to lose your capital and shouldn’t be flying it. Eve 101.

    August 18, 2019 at 7:25 pm
    • Rhivre Noob

      Handily you can also afford the injectors to train you into it in the next 3 weeks 😉

      August 18, 2019 at 8:45 pm
    • Super Duper Noob

      And thus saying people should play more than one account or stay away from capitals.
      Not everyone wants to or can afford multiple accounts.

      August 23, 2019 at 10:55 am
  • Politis

    Amen. Couldn;t agree more. Time for super and VNI ratting to die.

    August 19, 2019 at 6:37 am
    • Gangsar RedVeil Politis

      VNI already die

      August 22, 2019 at 1:27 am
  • Fartolio

    Wanna remove safety? Remove travel penalities. 😉

    August 20, 2019 at 10:06 am
  • Super Duper

    I love how the writer complains about NS being to wealthy when he loves his 1B ticks.

    You have only proven to me that with this article you don’t understand the game and just hopped on the bandwagon for your risk free kills.

    WH entries can be closed so there are way less things to monitor thus making your space safer.
    WH systems cannot be dropped upon, so the cyno change won’t affect you in the least.
    Your dread/titan that is generating the 1B tick cannot be contested since it cannot be dropped with capitals.

    So you complain about players actively working together creating a safer space for themselves since this hurts your risk free killing.
    At this point i solely see you as someone who is still a toddler in his mind having a tantrum that he can’t have his way.
    Unfortunately CCP proved to be a asshat parent who stopped your tantrum by giving in.This gives you and others like you the idea that they are right and that this is the way the game is meant to be played.
    Newsflash: it is not, EVE is a sandbox and people can play how they want.
    If a group decides that something isn’t the way they would like it and think of methods within the games mechanics to provide the things they need then that is their way of playing the game.

    Like many have said before, NS is “safe” due to the people living there, if all our pilots thought that the intel channels get filled with info automatically and none post if they see neuts in a system then the intel system doesn’t work and you would have zero intel.
    So please for the love of god stop bitching that NS is safe, it is relatively safe due to the effort put in by players.

    August 23, 2019 at 11:06 am
    • Oleksandr Sereda Super Duper

      Before the blackout, I could safely travel through NS in my Occator, just needed a travelceptor ahead to ensure there are no gate camps. And if met something, I just cloak and wait a bit.
      With Blackout this is not safe anymore as my ceptor alt can’t tell how many people might be sitting cloaked.

      NS was safe even without Intel networks

      August 24, 2019 at 1:29 pm
  • Nicz Shadowstar

    Capital ships will no longer be able to light cyno’s.

    August 27, 2019 at 2:36 am
  • Berth Ljunggren

    And why again should a capital ship not be hard to kill?
    As for regular cyno for my JF sitting my cheap probe did not make feel safe just one bit, sure the ship i can rebuild and all the modules in it as well, but dying means my JF might be in trouble, and the extra time it takes to get cyno up again.

    September 12, 2019 at 5:20 pm