Progod announces TEST moving to Drones as PAPI Allies abandon war

2021-08-02

Art by Shingly

After 393 days, or 57 weeks or 13 months; the PAPI assault on the Imperium has come to a sudden end as the coalition begins to failscade.

After a weekend of rumoured move ops out of Delve, on August 2 PAPI forces began a “Final Push” into 1DQ, as covered on our liveblog earlier tonight.

As the butcher’s bill mounted, and T3 fleets were annihilated in T5Z, and the incoming fleets did not manage to get off the gate, it seemed that Imperium would hold the ground in this fight.

What was unexpected was what happened just before 2100 Eve Time in Talking in Stations Discord:

This was followed shortly after by an announcement from Gobbins, the leader of Pandemic Horde.

Vince Draken from Northern Coalition followed with this ping to his alliance

ProGodLegend then called an urgent Townhall, in which he confirmed that TEST would be withdrawing to Dronelands. The Townhall covers a lot of ground, including the comments from line members afterwards. The Townhall can be found in its entirety here and is worth listening to. PGL laid a large portion of the blame at the feet of scarcity and CCP changes to broker fees recently, which reduced the income from Tranquility Trading Tower.
After PGL speaks, the comms stay open and the Townhall descends into something of a shouting match between alliance members as they react to the news.

Finally tonight, Dunk Dinkle led a townhall for Brave Alliance. He took a markedly different tone from PGL. He stated that the war is over and they lost and that this has been a war of morale and the Imperium coalition had kept the morale up much more than PAPI has. He said that the will of the coalition to continue has gone. He said that Imperium leadership deserved credit for winning the war against PAPI with the odds stacked against them. As he put it “If you come at the king you had best not miss, and we missed.”

He stated that he was not going to comment on CCP tax changes or other CCP changes, because this has been a war about morale and that the Imperium has been able to maintain their morale throughout this thing in a way I did not believe possible.

Dunk said that he knew for a couple of days that the coalition was going to stand down. He told his members that they would not be able to stay in Querious as he believed The Mittani would follow through on his promise to attack Brave.

He is not expecting kindness from Imperium after PAPI tried to wipe them out.
A full link to the stream will be added as soon as it is available, but as it is ongoing there is not yet a link to the VOD.

What will come next is yet to be seen, but this rapid failscade was not something that was expected – at least not at this scale and this fast. It was rumored that PAPI were going to begin withdrawing, but I do not think anyone expected this to happen within the space of 90 minutes without a massacre of supers or some other overwhelming loss.

In the coming days I am sure that more information will come out from behind the scenes as to what has gone on, but for now, there is going to be a special edition of the Meta Show at 2359 Eve (tonight!) where The Mittani will be giving his initial response. So head over to INN Twitch to catch this.

Update: The Brave Alliance chat is available here

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Comments

  • Patrick Pulfer

    So Test won the war against Frat with Goons help to end up turning on Goons and now going to be Frat’s pet/renter.

    August 2, 2021 at 11:27 PM
    • William Doe Patrick Pulfer

      I’d love to see FRAT not forget their grudge with TEST and get back at them some time in the future.

      August 3, 2021 at 1:33 AM
      • Deni'z von Meanace William Doe

        Note: while the was “second push” on 1DQ, FRT was losing another 0.5T to Snuff. So they knew long time ago this war is nothing but fiasco of TEST and choose to work on their actual problems vs mythical win of war.

        August 4, 2021 at 1:03 AM
    • Jeet_Kundo Patrick Pulfer

      It’s a lesson in perceived threats versus actual threats, I think Noraus made his position very clear on their participation in the war when it came to weighing what it costs to keep the boogeyman locked up in a closet in a galaxy far far away while Freddy Krueger is running wild in your backlines.

      August 4, 2021 at 2:05 PM
  • J Moravia

    Dunk is a king among peasants. He’s the kind of guy who probably wouldn’t want to be in charge of the whole Legacy coalition, but would be the best possible leader because of that.

    August 2, 2021 at 11:32 PM
    • J Moravia J Moravia

      Paging Seir Luciel to this discussion! Come on, my guy!

      August 2, 2021 at 11:40 PM
      • William Doe J Moravia

        Dunk hasn’t been in charge of BRAVE for awhile. That Vily sycophant Shattered Armor is probably the real figurehead and leader of them. Welp, BRAVE’s in the way and they’re going to be finding themselves homeless fairly soon.

        August 3, 2021 at 1:01 AM
      • Garreth Vlox J Moravia

        Seir is busy doing lines of copium at the moment, please hold.

        August 3, 2021 at 1:24 AM
        • Gray Doc Garreth Vlox

          Just an FYI: Seir has good reasons not to be online right now, having nothing to do with EVE events. He’s never been one to dodge tough issues and so don’t read anything into absence other than RL matters.

          August 3, 2021 at 11:39 AM
      • Xelistren J Moravia

        My question is where did the other guy go, you know dribble or something like that. He drank more koolaid then seir luciel did.

        August 3, 2021 at 3:45 AM
  • kwnyupstate .

    CCP is the MVP of the war for putting it all to end with TTT changes.
    GO CCP.
    But honestly PAPI is moronic for relying on TTT money this much.

    August 2, 2021 at 11:39 PM
  • Carvj94

    “PGL laid a large portion of the blame at the feet of scarcity and CCP changes to broker fees recently, which reduced the income from Tranquility Trading Tower.”

    PAPI only occupies like 30x more space than goons along with having nearly all of EVE’s rental empires under their umbrella. Obviously they lost because of too little income and raw materials *rolls eyes*. It’s not as if there’s rampent corruption resulting in 95% of their income going to management rather than being reinvested in infrastructure and stockpiles.

    August 2, 2021 at 11:40 PM
    • kwnyupstate . Carvj94

      Yeah you can’t tell me 95% of the space on the game can’t get enough money to attack a few systems. But as I said all along no alliance in PAPI would risk losing supers and titans since after the war they need to be able to defend themselves.

      August 2, 2021 at 11:45 PM
      • HerpMcGurt kwnyupstate .

        You can’t take a well-defended system like 1DQ with 40 structures (reportedly) on the same grid and thousands of active players ready to defend. It is simply not possible given the current state of the game.

        August 3, 2021 at 5:25 PM
        • kwnyupstate . HerpMcGurt

          It is possible since not all those structures can all hit you at once. You just need enough people with enough motivation to keep taking losses but eventually you could. PAPI should have been able to defeat it if they had enough balls.

          August 3, 2021 at 10:47 PM
        • J Moravia HerpMcGurt

          Then perhaps Vily shouldn’t have made “we take 1DQ1-A or we fail” his war target? If all he’d said was that he wanted to give Goons a bloody nose and set them back a few months, he’d be strutting out of Delve as a champion now. But he’s the one who said “We will take 1DQ…if we don’t we fail.” He’s the one who said “war of extermination.” He’s the one who said TEST would live in Delve after the war was over.

          There was a path to victory here that didn’t involve PAPI having to take 1DQ, but Vily deliberately chose to die on that hill. You can’t blame the servers for that.

          https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/oxux6u/a_quick_trip_back_in_time_for_anyone_saying_papi/

          August 4, 2021 at 4:47 PM
    • chimpy Carvj94

      To rely on live TTT income to fund the war was a clown move, but then again we’ve seen almost nothing but clown moves from the Council of Wardens. Seriously? You’re running one side of the biggest war in the history of Eve, and cringe roleplaying Games of Thrones is up on the board of important and urgent things to do? If there’s one piece of behind the scenes info I’d like to come out it’s who’s great big brain idea that was? Mind you PAPI did follow Daenerys Targaryen’s plotline quite closely. Think you’re the saviour of the entire galaxy, blue everyone, don’t realise the damage you’re causing by indulging your egotistical god complex, get your ass handed to you at the end when it all comes crumbling down. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, thank god the blue donut is disintegrating and Goons have broken Serentity v2.

      August 3, 2021 at 10:18 AM
      • Deni'z von Meanace chimpy

        Nah since we don’t yet what to happen with Daenerys cause need to wait next book foe another (put random number here) months to be released )))

        August 4, 2021 at 12:59 AM
  • William Doe

    I want to see/hear what Norhaus actually thinks after all of this.

    August 3, 2021 at 1:02 AM
  • Guilford Australis

    I’m not a diplomat, but I imagine Dunk could approach The Imperium and end up keeping at least part of Querious on good terms with us. We’ve always had respect for Brave, and they deserve far better than Legacy, a coalition that has kicked them to the curb at every available opportunity.

    August 3, 2021 at 1:18 AM
    • Nah. Dunk sees it how it is: Brave had their chance. Brave had many chances. The reality is that while Dunk himself seems like a decent dude, his alliance has a considerable contingent of folks with TEST energy. They chose to join PAPI. They surrendered their cute-newbie credentials when they passed the reins to idiots like Shattered Armor and chose to batphone in thousands of TEST/NCdot dudes to kill Goons. We had a playful go at them in Querious and instead of reciprocating they got all toxic in local and called in the cavalry. With NCdot and TEST’s help they succeded in driving us from Querious, but in doing so they made their bed. Dunk is not wrong: it is too late to switch sides now.

      August 3, 2021 at 1:30 AM
      • Guilford Australis Ganthrithor

        Yeah. Maybe you’re right. I’ve just never fully given up hope on Brave. Some of our major leaders and Corp directors got their start in Brave, and we’ve always kind of had a soft spot for them.

        But they did comport themselves like miserable wretches during WWB, so I see both sides of it.

        August 3, 2021 at 2:51 AM
        • Democritus Guilford Australis

          Lets be honest here. Brave really shouldn’t be in 0.0 space based on the numbers their fleet pull. They only exist out here under the protective umbrella of more active groups.

          August 3, 2021 at 5:32 AM
        • For sure some of their membership is just fine: like I said, I’d take Dunk and some of their autists who fought us small-gang style in Querious any day. Unfortunately Dunk probably doesn’t want to stop being an alliance leader, and IIRC a lot of the fightiest Braves were extremely grr-Gon individuals, so unlikely that they would join the Imperium.

          August 4, 2021 at 6:11 AM
        • Jeet_Kundo Guilford Australis

          Merkel paid them some respects during our state of the corp a couple months back, there’s respectable people in there, people can just as easily see themselves slide away from whatever they initially stood for and not notice until the time of reckoning has come. Just as we have had cultural revolutions, they are just as well postured for one now as we were in the past. This will definitely offer itself as a period for reflection to those who recognize it, Brave is far from irreparable

          August 4, 2021 at 2:01 PM
      • Moomin Amatin Ganthrithor

        The Brave brand is tainted perhaps beyond repair. When you have so many toxic individuals hiding behind new players and “stay classy”, it really does make you wonder how it came to pass. I would like to hope that Dunk takes this opportunity to make Brave a thing he can be proud of again. Something that all of eve can be proud of would be even better. But it is a long way from there at this time.

        August 3, 2021 at 5:49 PM
        • Dunk Dinkle himself and whichever cool bois of Brave who enjoy brawling in T1 cruisers and not-caring-that-we-die-a-lot-as-long-as-it’s-funny should just quit Brave and join Delta Sqad. Delta does exactly what Brave want people to *think* they do, only it’s 80% less carcinogenic and we don’t spend our time following a bunch of elite-PvP shitbags around, sucking their dicks while they use our newbees as cannon fodder. Delta is the most fightingest sqad in all of New Eden. I’m sure Karmafleet will be recruiting again soon 🙂

          August 4, 2021 at 6:09 AM
    • There’s many mob movies where when the poop hits the pan the number one rule is don’t beg. I think Dunk understands this. There’s a very small possibility that the Imperium might cut Brave some slack, but that respect for the honesty of Dunk’s mea culpa would evaporate if he got on his knees and begged. Brave have no right to expect any mercy. Dunk knows this. I think the best Brave can hope for is to get very very far away while Test gets the Imperium’s special attention, maybe even station out of lowsec so there’s no infrastructure to attack. Null sec politics is about to go on a high velocity rollercoaster ride after over a year of stagnation. PAPI leadership clown school are about to start playing the pass the parcel blame game. Brave keeping their heads down and their mouths shut might just be enough for them to slink out of the limelight. Got knows there’s enough limelights to run a disco right now.

      August 3, 2021 at 10:03 AM
    • Jeet_Kundo Guilford Australis

      Dunk knows that any kindness given him will not come from asking for it, that asking for it will most certainly not receive it, and he knows that he doesn’t deserve any either. Just as we were prepared at the beginning of the war to lose all of our shit, he’s effectively given Brave the same exact brief for the upcoming extraction. Respect his leadership in his ability to take responsibility of his organization, both in its successes and its failures, as he knows the risks and is putting his people forward in a speech that was nothing short of “we’re on our own now.” Mittani’s kindness that will be offered, should there be any, will likely be a blind eye during the upcoming inquisition

      August 4, 2021 at 1:54 PM
      • chimpy Jeet_Kundo

        A blind eye from the Imprium right now is positively a golden opportuinity, a golden age. Most will be getting the Eye of Sauron treatment.

        August 5, 2021 at 11:44 AM
      • I was fairly shocked at the frankness of Dunk’s speech. I also assume that there are many people within the Imperium who, like me, feel no compulsion to go out of our way to hunt down the broken remnants of Brave. They’ll get a little hazing on the way out the door– it’s an important ritual hazing after all– but I don’t see us pursuing them across the galaxy to wherever they decide to land.

        August 7, 2021 at 5:58 AM
  • Elithiel en Gravonere

    After 14 months of blood, sweat and toil, we finally won the war! Now we get to enact revenge and carnage on everyone who tried to exterminate us from the Game. No doubt I get to look forwards to ambushing them back in their space again and on the way out of Delve. They’ll be falling over each other in a mad scramble and exodus to leave first before everyone else leaves them in the lurch. The coalition of the unwilling are in routed at last!

    August 3, 2021 at 3:58 AM
  • alx panou

    Let’s just not forget that the Greeks, unable to break in during the Siege of Troy, pretended to depart with their ships. Supposedly returning home.
    Behind they left a “present”.
    Famous through history as “The Trojan Horse”.
    Lets just be alert.

    August 3, 2021 at 9:35 AM
    • Jeet_Kundo alx panou

      Sadly, no such mechanics exist beyond betrayal.

      August 4, 2021 at 1:50 PM
  • chimpy

    Has the Imperium considered putting in a ticket to CCP to ask for a refund for all the leadership skillbooks they dropped in T5Z? They were clearly defective and I think a CCP refund is in order.

    August 3, 2021 at 10:29 AM
  • Captain Jeep-Eep

    I like the name of OPERATION: CHICXULUB for the Finding Out.

    August 3, 2021 at 10:58 AM
  • phuzz

    Somehow PAPI have managed to fuck over (almost) all of the Imperium’s territory, cage them in one system for months…and yet they still managed to lose.

    If they’d come into the war saying “we’re going to give The Imperium a bloody nose”, then this would be a win for them, but by pledging to do impossible things like “destroy” the Imperium (it’s a game, capsuleers are immortal, wtf were they expecting?) they’ve handed them a win.

    Man, I can’t imagine how smug Mittens is right now. I can practically smell it from here 😉

    August 3, 2021 at 11:49 AM
    • HerpMcGurt phuzz

      I don’t really understand why after over a year PAPI doesn’t just squat on what they have since Goons are limited to one constellation without the ability to make much ISK in null. I would imagine most assets of coalition members are located close by at this point. Then make Goons fight for every system in Delve to bleed them. Am I just being naive? Maybe the fact that PanFam is going home makes this unviable, but now each alliance is just making themselves more vulnerable by giving Goons breathing room to recover.

      August 3, 2021 at 5:44 PM
      • kwnyupstate . HerpMcGurt

        The reality is PAPI killed lots of structures and structures have infinite volume and many people can use the same ones so its not a big deal. They didn’t reduce Imperium member count by much and didn’t hurt their strategic capital force either. They gave up and left and Imperium can just rebuild delve the way they want since learning lessons during the war. Delve will be rebuilt even better than before the war.

        August 3, 2021 at 10:50 PM
        • Garreth Vlox kwnyupstate .

          “They didn’t reduce Imperium member count by much”

          The imperium gained more in numbers from The Horn and papi or neutral corces joining mid war than we lost due to attrition.

          August 4, 2021 at 1:10 PM
          • Jeet_Kundo Garreth Vlox

            Yep, I came back explicitly because of the war. Not so much the war itself but the war objectives that were set against us, very much a “oh hell no, who the fuck do you think you are” return.

            August 4, 2021 at 1:49 PM
      • Deni'z von Meanace HerpMcGurt

        As vily and piggles said their pockets outta isk. To hold a defence fleets test wouldn’t stay long alone vs angry goons and horde won’t to stay any longer with weak TESTticles cause SRP is not a deal anymore.

        August 4, 2021 at 1:18 AM
  • HerpMcGurt

    So I don’t really get the strategy here. Why not stay put and make Goons fight to take everything back, which would probably take months? Then you could make them spend a lot of resources on offense which is much more costly than defense.

    This seems like if after 1941 the Germans were like “Welp, we failed. Everyone back to Berlin.”

    At least if they defended then ships and structures would be lost in glorious purpose rather than just being randomly ganked.

    I guess PAPI really is kapoot. Poor Brave and S3vrance. They about to get it good and hard. No sympathy for TEST though.

    August 3, 2021 at 5:22 PM
    • HerpMcGurt HerpMcGurt

      TEST should have realized this was a fight to the death. Goons are not going to let them exist after this. So they should have decided to go down fighting instead of running away to the other side of the galaxy with their tail between their legs, where Goons will find them anyways.

      August 3, 2021 at 5:30 PM
      • Malcanis HerpMcGurt

        On the contrary, goons want them to exist for as long as possible

        August 5, 2021 at 6:03 PM
    • William Doe HerpMcGurt

      Purpose don’t mean shit for TEST leadership, there’s a few line members who are willing to stay and fight in defense even if they lose everything. TEST has been riding the coattails of other alliances and blocs outside of Legacy for years now, it’s been proven time and time again. They put the minimal amount of effort while somehow they get to control the narrative on their end, but maybe now there’ll be enough to realize to avoid TEST like the cancer that it’s always been especially with Goons eager to annihilate TEST as a whole.

      August 4, 2021 at 1:09 AM
      • Jeet_Kundo William Doe

        They’re a tick, only a hot iron will remove them from whoever they latch onto.

        August 4, 2021 at 1:47 PM
    • Deni'z von Meanace HerpMcGurt

      Because they tired of their own stupidity and couldn’t muster enough folks by a ping.
      And you asking too much if them now. They simply didn’t have such plan “B”. And they scare, all of them. Even in current state goons would eat them alive one by one, and the blue donut won’t work this time.

      August 4, 2021 at 1:12 AM
      • Garreth Vlox Deni'z von Meanace

        They never had a plan A, just listen to vily’s interview on why M2- went sideways as an example. These guys never planned anything they just did shit and hoped it lead somewhere.

        August 4, 2021 at 1:15 PM
    • Jeet_Kundo HerpMcGurt

      PAPI, or at least their leadership and thereby dripping down to their members, place their assets on a pedestal, like a trophy in its glass box to admire and spin in the client; going out in glorious hellfire is not something that ranks as a high priority. There is also the simple fact that PAPI only existed out of a unified hate for goons; remove goons and they’d go at each other like piranha with blood in the water – we saw that the moment the townhall ended.

      They’re sick of each other and sick of being beholden to someone they otherwise don’t agree with, only going along with it because they either joined willingly or dragged kicking and screaming by the blue fuckup. I guarantee you, their members are going to have more fun in the upcoming weeks with evac than they have the past several months.

      August 4, 2021 at 1:45 PM
    • Severance fought harder than basically anyone else in PAPI, from what I saw. For a modestly-sized group they punched well above their weight. Fighting PAPI main-line FCs felt like a vacation after having to deal with Severance for months. I’m sure they’ll find a place of their own: they may be pretty toxic sometimes but they’re not bad at EVE Online– unlike certain others within their camp.

      August 7, 2021 at 6:02 AM
  • Moomin Amatin

    OK, so hear me out on this one. When the war was in its early stages and Vily was on about how he had asked the Imperium to attack PanFam, he also said that he thought the best region in the game was Dronelands. Dronelands people, Dronelands! Could it be this is all part of the super cunning plan of Vily and Piggles to set up where they always wanted to? Although I suspect that if Legacy wanted to rent Dronelands from PanDaFam they could have just asked. Probably would have been cheaper as well.

    Anyhoo, makes you think huh? 😉

    August 3, 2021 at 5:43 PM
  • HerpMcGurt

    What did TEST do to them though?

    They all willingly signed up for the Goonicide, and it isn’t necessarily only TEST’s fault that the mission failed. NC and PL could have decided to move to Delve or a close region in order to follow through on the stated goals. But they are going “home” now. I’m honestly not sure how anyone in PAPI felt like it was going to be achievable to completely remove Goons from Delve without moving there and essentially camping semi-permanently until they were gone. It was just never going to work if they all planned on going home after it was “over.”

    August 4, 2021 at 6:12 PM
    • J Moravia HerpMcGurt

      TEST dragged them all into a war with unwinnable victory conditions (arguably the war was over the moment Vily declared “we take 1DQ or we lose” – that didn’t have to be TEST’s war goal, but he chose to make it so). Then TEST declared that they were going to be the ones to keep Delve after the war was over. Even Gobbins knew, and stated in a public town hall, that without PH propping up TEST, TEST would crumble instantly. And, well, we’re watching that happen in real time.

      So what did TEST’s allies get out of all that, other than, as you say, signing up for Goonicide? Why wouldn’t they be angry at TEST and PGL and Vily for everything that happened over the past 12+ months?

      August 4, 2021 at 8:29 PM