EVE Explained – Why Fight?

2019-02-04

Header art by Redline XIII

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Comments

  • Rammel Kas

    You seem to be ignoring a prime mover behind the current ongoing northern fights. Revenge.

    (Also as an aside, the fighting in the north is still seen as part of the Casino War in theater, the parties involved and the narrative thread. So for some there is that.)

    It’s fine poking at the Imperium. Just most people don’t seem to realize we play with consequence as an ingredient of the open sandbox. It tends to get people into fleets if you can point at what people did to us in the past, and what they likely will try again. Not obviously crass as pointing fingers. But it’s there in the back. Funny how few people understand how this one works.

    We’re not alone in this. How often in the past didn’t we hear a similar rationale of “they poked at us, lets see how they like the consequence” from people like Vince and Grath. It gets boots on the ground.

    There is another aspect to this too. People get bored with stagnant situations. We certainly didn’t garner any profit from burning clown ring. Except perhaps the occasional loot drop. So it’s not entirely about that for the line. Also groups like Tri routinely say this is why they do things. Although they seem to believe a meta book from 5 years ago.

    Although if we return to the wars from last year… and if you read the higher level views that have come out since the peace deal with the North there is indeed a wealth motivator. But not in the sense of a net gain. This was all about leveraging wealth to gain relative power, by punching down at the people who were marginally slower on the uptake. In that sense the “why” has changed in subtle ways. Everyone sees the 12 Keepstars they lost in various ways. Nobody really speaks to the dozens of capital and titan yards, not to mention the moon harvesters we torched. We didn’t install renters or plug in our own. We salted that earth and moved on.

    One example of a wealth motivator though is how you saw so many pilots willing to put up with the wormhole mechanics to shoot the structures in Rage. Hard Knocks flaunted the wealth to try provoke a fight they felt they could usually win. There were even rumors of AT ships up for grabs if the cans dropped. They underestimated how well this carrot ended up working.

    February 4, 2019 at 9:53 am
  • Nick Ashley

    No synopsis or anything? Great article /s

    February 4, 2019 at 4:23 pm
  • Eli

    From talking to the enemy against the Imperium, typically, the narrative goes that they don’t like that we’re the big super power. They see us as the evil villains, scamming high sec pubbies, Ruining the game for the rest of Eve with our Hive mind. Yes, it’s grr gons, but there’s more to that story than meets the eye. The mindset that PVE is bad, PVP is good very much sets the philosophical differences apart from us and the other side. We see both as a great thing. They rage against us having Rorquals and a strong industralist mindset. It’s like the difference between the industrial revolution and the landed gentry who embraced feudalism. Clearly, in history, the industrial revolution was the winner, as it is a more efficient system.

    Similar to the wars that were fought at the start of the industrial revolution in our own world, that’s what we currently are seeing in Eve. The last of the feudal barons hole up in the North, refusing to the embrace the new way. This difference in philosophy, presents itself as a reason to fight or at least, have a cold war when not fighting directly. Previously with Goons and BoB it was also a difference in philosophy. Back then they were all for the e-Busido code (which still holds up in Wormhole space interestingly enough) and Goons thought that was nonsense. Today, the philosophical conflict is not about codes of behaviour, but economic systems. This translates to dislike on the ground which leads to physical altercations.

    February 5, 2019 at 4:06 am
    • Alaric Faelen Eli

      Well said.

      I’m not sure why the grr goons thing persists. Especially when our enemies are the ones known for backstabs, betrayals, bans, and epic defections (usually to us). They use exploits until CCP is shamed into fixing them. They treat their renters like cattle, abandon their friends, and run high sec protection rackets.

      And yet we still get the ‘bad guy’ label.

      There is supposed to be a narrative in Eve Online. We are capsuleers- both distrusted yet necessary for the NPC empires. We were challenged in CCP’s own advertising to go forth and build great empires. First in the name of the NPC empires but then as they feared- declare independence and even come to eclipse the old empires. That is our end goal– the one the game is built around.

      I also don’t see why people are convinced that the state of null sec in about 2009 was where Eve should be stuck in neutral. We are finally seeing the full potential of a region being exploited. Like a civilization creating it’s first Dyson Sphere. We are seeing truly Empire-level industry. We are seeing the wars you only read about in game lore that the NPC empires fought to get to where they are today. We actually undock and do it. And even given the soul-crushing TiDi it’s obviously still fun because we have to create overflow fleets for anything that remotely promises a fight.

      February 6, 2019 at 5:55 pm
      • Rammel Kas Alaric Faelen

        First thing to point out. People have made Goons to be the great evil whenever it suits their narrative. Incidentally much of what they accuse us actually reads of their own exploits. (We do things slightly differently.)

        We are used to getting hate on for no reason. And it seems to garner us targets to shoot back at. So there is that. Sometimes leaders like Sion back in the day will actually poke the opponents to get them off their arse (ref “no community” post). Seems to be needed every so often or they just rot and go to shit.

        If you look at destruction across the cluster you may find a surprising thing. EVE is pretty active. And the most active single group who log in and play all over the map are Goons.

        February 7, 2019 at 11:24 am
  • I don’t fight anymore, lol. EVE is so fucking boring now.

    February 6, 2019 at 7:52 am
  • Guilford Australis

    There are some alliances that fight for no obvious reason and get no obvious benefit from it. Nomadic, semi-mercenary alliances like Honorable Third Party, Purple Helmeted Warriors, and Pandemic Legion come to mind – though each of them has diminished into a husk of its former glory. We could point to Snuffed Out and Black Legion, as well, notwithstanding their occasional collaboration with The Imperium and PanFam, respectively. Of course, there are many layers to the meta and one might point out that those groups often fight on behalf of others who are pursuing economic, strategic, or other goals (as Jin’taan discusses), so they are pursuing those ends indirectly, I suppose.

    February 7, 2019 at 9:13 pm